Gemdiver tells all - How to make plat

[Flatley]

Well, to start with my bank gets padded by tradeskilling. Spiderling Silks especially. I need money badly and if I don't want to risk any exp. loss. I kill spiderlings with a lower level alt by the ton and sell them for 3-4pp ea. If I want to make more money, I sell threads or cords. If I want more money, I sell padding and so on.

But the real money maker is to work with others. I can get a Pegasus cloak with my tracker and find a mage looking to do his epic and make 5-10kpp (without haggling either). Selling Jade Reavers brings a 10-15kpp. Even just being able to open that door in CoM can make me a couple of K, too. I can make 1-2Kpp in PoG with the drops there and a strong 50s group.

If I am bored or watching a movie, I temp folks and let them donate. Or TL or Port. I offer fletching services, but no one wants them (I give bows to my guildmates to make room). I haven't bought a horse yet, but I do drop 5-6K on tradeskilling, not that it directly helps that much. Oh, yeah, I make the Blessed Fishing Rods too, but now that everything else for that quest is so cheap, some folks feel the price for the Rod is too high.

Flatley
Tradeskiller
Bad Businessman
Grateful for both
8k in the bank now

[Phantron]

Trust me... eventually people will lower prices if nobody buys their goods.

This doesn't seem to be actually true. People are quite happy to sit on their overpriced good forever.

There isn't that much plat to be earned for being uber so far as yard trash goes. I'm guessing killing stuff in Sanctus Seru will net you the most money since everything there carries about 15pp if you want to get money by killing stuff.

[Itek]

I do wish I had access to the Magic List Of Correct Prices For Everything For All Time And If You Charge More It's A Rip-Off, really I do, but I seem to have lost my password.

Again, for those NOT QUITE paying attentiong...

I didn't start the thread saying "charging 49pp for a zombie skin is a rip off"

(Even though it is.)

I started the thread saying "I -loathe- it when people write How-To-Make-Plat guides and 90% of the advice is 'ripoff tradeskillers' and the other 10% is 'become uber' because that's no kind of advice, might as well say 'come in from the rain, or you'll catch cold' or something else totally bannal."

I
Sell
Tradeskill
Supplies
For
Plat

I
Vendor(ed)
KEI
In
PoK

I'm not saying these practices are natively BAD. I'm saying that deliberately encouraging people to hold the tradeskill community hostage for plat is.

In a recent thread here someone said they asked in a pick-up group if they could have a tradeskill drop they wanted. Here's a synopsis of how it went.

Skiller: Hey, I can use that Nifty-Item for tradeskills.
MasterLooter: Sorry, it's going in with the vendor trash loots.
Skiller: Can I roll on it?
Looter: Nope, it's trash.
Skiller: Ok, I need this Gear-Drop.
Looter: No NBG on items, everyone can roll.

-group breaks up-
-Skiller goes to Bazaar-
-Looter has Nifty-Item up for 75k on trader-

Skiller: I thought you were gonna vendor Nifty-Item
Looter: I was, but I check all vendor trash with Tradeskill tags and find out what they go for.
Skiller: Can I roll on the 75k drop now, since it isn't vendor trash.
Looter: .... no reply ...

I don't give a rat's whisker that Looter priced the item at 75k instead of 30k or whatever. That's not the ripoff of which I was speaking. (The price in the Bazaar, and I've said this before, is the NOT-Selling-Price, and the market works just fine.)

The 'ripoff' of which I am speaking in the original post is the ripping-off of the tradeskillers community by the non-tradeskillers who see us as an endless bank. (Right up until someone wants to cash in on tradeskills by charging enough for high end gear to recoup their expenses. Then we are evil incarnate.)

[eqNichola]

Again, for those NOT QUITE paying attentiong...

Oh how cutting.

I'm saying that deliberately encouraging people to hold the tradeskill community hostage for plat is.

Whereas what should be happening, of course, is that people should be encouraged to charge the Magic Correct Price for tradeskill supplies, and not a copper more.

The 'ripoff' of which I am speaking in the original post is the ripping-off of the tradeskillers community by the non-tradeskillers who see us as an endless bank.

If only there was some way to establish a price for tradeskill supplies that was mutually agreeable to sellers and buyers!

Oh wait.


Really, this poster said it best:

Whether you like it or not, Gemdiver is right.

[Elyssanda]

Ya know. I like the fact that people are allowed to come to this site and post without fear of others coming and flaming them. to bad some people feel the need to make directed attacks without taking a whole post into context, or without posting anything relevant.
Maybe they don't agree with what someone says, but there are ways of disagreeing without being rude.

Now, as for the post that said I was wrong in saying that 5p per vegetable was a ripoff (discounting the whole rest of my post) because they couldn't forage. I did say that these are able to be made purely with vendor purchased items.
so. let's see.
lettuce 2s6c.
carrot 2s6c
turnip 2s6c
Grand total 7s8c to purchase the parts to make veggies. so yes I still believe 5p is a ripoff. and my main is a foraging class, so this isn't about foraging. I just used vegetables as an example.

Now to the rest of my post.
"price higher than I am willing to pay? example chunks of condensed shadows, drop off of mobs in their mid 30's in shadeweavers thicket,
20P is a price I am willing to pay
40P each is higher than I am willing to pay,
ripoff is when that price hits 90P+ (and I have seen these try to sell at 150P each)"

Now, I am level 67, almost 68.. I hunt pretty much where I want and what I want. I have plenty of PP in the bank to pay for condensed pieces for my fletching at ANY price. however, I will gladly GLADLY go farm level 30 mobs for hours at a time rather than pay what I consider to be ripoff prices. Honestly I probably have more than enough condensed shadows in my bank or on me currently to reach trivial on them. I still search the bazaar daily to see if someone is selling them at a reasonable to me price.

AS for the original post. I agree with the feeling of disappointment and disillusionment. Going to a reputable site and reading something that basically says "it's ok to get rich at the expense of others" feels wrong. and that's really what that post boils down to. it's a moral feeling, my morality says it it wrong to knowingly and intentionally overcharge for something that can be made or gotten easily.

[Ngreth Thergn]

Elyssanda is correct.

Chill before you post on Our boards.

[Maevenniia]

Ok, that's enough of that.

This is a highly subjective topic.

A price that is a "rip off" to one player may seem perfectly reasonable to another.

You each have your own OPINION, and attacking each other about those opinions is not welcome at EQTC, even in PSR.

And tone down the sarcasm folks, k? Being deliberately antagonistic in your posts is just inviting flames, and we have enough work to do without having to head to PSR with a firehose every few minutes.


EDIT - hmm, reopened thread, Ngreth was posting at the same time as I wes...if Ngreth didn't close it I won't second guess him....the rest of what I said still applies.

[Itek]

"Your skill at Detect Mine has gotten better! (187)"

Hmm... think I should go play Minesweeper. It relaxes me.
(Personal best time, expert, 113 seconds.)

Generally if I'm having a bad day I'll play till I beat it at least 3 times, with the game being under 175 seconds to count as a win.

[Liwsa]

As posted veggies cost less then 8 silver to make.

If folks are too lazy to make them how can you blame anyone for the price they sell them for. The cost is 8 silver IF someone would rather not spend xxx to buy and just make the veggies themselves.

I forage them all the time and put them on my bazaar mules for 5pp each and they ALWAYS sell. Why should I NOT charge 5pp when someone is always willing to buy them at that price.

[Itek]

Ok, ... it just won't die.

I am NOT debating what the price for fish eggs in Finland is or should be.

I do NOT care about specific item pricing.

I, personally, do sell tradeskill components above their cost to me.

My complaint isn't with the prices set on various items.

My complaint IS with the PHILOSOPHY of "use tradeskillers as your personal ATM"

There are 4 tried and true methods of making plat in EQ that can be explained simply.
a) Kill stuff. This is slow and smacks of effort.
b) Get it from tradeskillers. Make them earn the plat from mobs for you.
c) Buy low, sell high. Takes time but if you have the soul of a Wall Street mogul, this is for you.
d) Become uber. Charge whatever you feel like for gear you wouldn't dream of equiping. Meanwhile complain about lack of end game content.

Repackaging old, and hackneyed, ideas is generally bad practice. If there had been useful content, like "hunt frogloks in Sebilis, they drop plat, FS weapons and occasional gems/spells and it's pretty empty recently" for example, then it would have been a good guide on how to make plat.

Making plat involves the creation of plat. Money falls from the sky in EQ every day. It's a non-zero-sum game. (Killed a bunch of frogs in Trak's Teeth trying to get my cleric and TheWife's beastie their Sebilis keys last night. Kill a frog, he drops 1 to 4 plat and about 1 in 4 drops a FS weapon worth perhaps 5 pp more. So kill 4 frogs, get about 15 plat. That's MAKING plat. These plat didn't exist until those frogs died.)

But Gemdiver did NOT write a guide on how to MAKE plat. He wrote a guide on how to ACCUMULATE plat. By taking it from other players. This is zero-sum-game-theory at it's worst. "In order for you to have plat, it must come from other players."

I didn't post that, because it's a fairly complex arguement. I posted the basic theme "if all you say for 'make a million plat' is 'sell 100,000 CE' then you haven't said anything useful, and in fact, it's evil." It's evil not because of the PRICES... It's evil because it pushes the theories of zero-sum on a non-zero-sum environment. It creates a false sense of scarcity of resources. It perverts and distorts the entire CONCEPT of a co-operative Multi-Player game. (And believe me, EQ is supposed to be co-op and multi-player. Just look at all the "class dependancy" and "group/guild oriented" statements from the developers. I think they know what kind of game they are building for us.) The best way to make plat in EQ is NOT to squat down in and exp group and make CE to Bazaar while you sleep. Yet that is #1 on Gemdivers list.

Oh my, I am SOOO not opposed to selling tradeskill stuff. I buy and sell a bunch of it almost every day. Last night, lemme go check... TheWife and I sold 33 tradeskill components for 1491 plat. Some of it for as low as 1 plat, some of it for 275 plat a piece. We charge what the market will bear and try not to undercut other traders by more than 20 percent. Quite a bit of it was alchemy and DoN tradeskill components. Providing reasonably priced components -might- help some shaman skill up, and they -might- then be able to charge less when it comes time for us to buy Pure'ish augments. But sitting in our bank, or marked for 1000 pp instead of 275 pp on our trader, those components don't HELP anyone.

Shaman can't forage.
Shaman requires foraged components for skill ups.
Druid can forage.
Druid can't learn alchemy.
Druid A gets Rare-Forage and marks it for 1000 pp
Druid B gets Rare-Forage and marks it for 275 pp

Yeah, Druid B found it on the ground, so in theory it cost them nothing. But since they can't USE it themselves, and will HAVE to pay for the services of a shaman at some point, they need to get something for it.

If the shaman needs say 400 of Rare-Forage to get to make Rare-Item when it comes time for them to sell Rare-Item would you rather they found 400 Rare-Forages at 275 each, or at 1000 each?

Non-zero-sum game. Prices don't really matter, it's the PHILOSOPHY of how you play the game.

[Wyvernwill]

I just go by the theory of:
If you don't like a price, don't buy the items. In the case of CE/Vegetables, take some time to make them yourself. With the UI change, it's not like you are breaking your wrists clicking and moving things off of stacks of 20 without the CTRL key like we have now.

I farm pretty much everything for my own skilling, which is rough as a Paladin and takes more time than I would care to admit, but in the end, I don't end up feeling ripped off because someone gouged the price on Shissar Scales or Piles of Gravel or any of the other things I use to skill up on.

[Cerpicio]

Wait.

Wait one second.

You can *make* vegetables?! When did that happen? It hasn't alwasy been that way, has it?


Yeesh. I need to pay more attention.
-- C.

[Itek]

Um... I think it was after Gates and before Omens...

Bunch of Gate baking required veggies and the prices on Bazaar traders went sky high. (well over 10 plat, in some cases almost 40 plat) Non-foragers complained, and the storebought veggie-combine went live.

/em heads over to check patch messages....



I was wrong, it was after Omens.

According to the patch messages it went live mid-December last year.

[Neebat]

You can *make* vegetables?!

http://www.eqtraders.com/items/show_...r=035000000000

Carrot
Lettuce
Turnip
Toss gently together in a mixing bowl. Never fails.

There are four places you can go to get everything you need: Rivervale, Abysmal Sea, Plane of Knowledge or Shadowhaven.

[KB1]

You can't get ripped off, it is that simple, you make the choice to either make the items, farm the items, or buy the items.