Shadowscream and Sickle Trivials to be reduced next patch

[Ngreth Thergn]

According to this link, as a Half-Elf bard, I need to farm Great Reptile Teeth to do Master level smithing. Unless they increase the drop rate on these items, it is highly unlikely I could use that as a skill up path.

If Sony increaseses the drop rate, then there will be a flood of master level armor on the market, and they don't want that to happen.

The teeth drop off summoning mobs that hit for 350s in PoNightmare. My toon isn't PoEarth flagged, so I dont' know how hard they hit there. I think both of these require you to level up. Maybe you don't have to be 65+, but you had better be in a strong group if not.

I think you have to be 46 to ZONE into PoN... (well into tranquility which is the link to PoN...) I doubt many people could hunt the crocks at 46...

[Pawket]

My personal 2cp on the subject..

One of the reasons I am still with EQ and not EQ2 is because I was a part of EQ2 beta and there are too many (you must do this first then that) things in the game.

This is also the reason I do not play a Vah Shir, or have any epics for my toons.

Now, with EQ I enjoy being able to log on and just go whack something, go farming tradeskill items or PP, or I can just sit on my butt if I want too. So if I get on and want to level, I go and do so, if I dont want to nothing is hurt by that.

Tradeskills are also one of the things I enjoy being able to do freely at any time I want to. I do have toons over 65, but many of my tradeskillers were (retired) from leveling some time ago and geared for tradeskills primarily. If they are to change the trivials in a way that I must level a tradeskiller just to be able to advance, then I will feel as if I am being forced to do one to complete the other. I can not believe that this is the spirit that this game was designed with. Mario Brothers is a start at point A and go to point B game with a preset path. I have always seen EQ as a "You choose point A and go to your chosen point B and take any path you care to take" game.
If I wanted to make a toon just to tradeskill I could leave him at a low level and tradeskill to my hearts content.

When I started playing, one of the things that hooked me was the entrepenuers that at level 5 were selling thier patchwork armor and working themselves thru the tradeskills as other went out and leveled. Those that were leveling were still coming back to the level 5 guy to upgrade thier armor as he got to the point he could make banded armor and he continued to work tradeskills and he made a good bit of PP for that time in EQ's coming history.

In todays EQ he would fall by the wayside as the trivial caps are raised but only to those at a certain character level.

Well, got alot more nostalgia feeling about where the game has gone and you can agree or not with it, and I know some change is good, just as it is nice to have more content for my leveling toons. But I do wish that they would leave the tradeskills separate from toon level as I feel it is a restriction to the players who like to have freedom of gameplay. If they raise trivial levels that is fine, but dont leave the little guys out of the mix, they still want to be a viable resource for crafted items.

I will shut up now, thank you for your time.

/misc. ramble off

[Liwsa]

One thing people tend to overlook is when they give us a good item to make using tradeskills the next expansion takes it away.

Augments were a boon to poisonmakers and alchemists in OOW but yet the very next expansion DoN they added the same effects you could make on augments FREAKING BUYABLE at the DON merchants.

Why give us the augments then trivalize it in the very next expansion by making the effects buyable on augment from vendors.

Yes not all effects but most.

[Saleani]

My toon isn't PoEarth flagged, so I don't know how hard they hit there

I haven't fought in PoE in quite a while, but my memory tells me that they hit for 600s or 700s. There are a number of traps in the zone, that spawn gators, and a rare spawn is called the prismatic basilisk (drops nice ranger whip rarely, and a caster mast often) which (triples?) hits for 850. I think everything in the zone sees through invisibility. The exp in PoE is quite nice, although not as nice as MPG or RS. And you don't need flags or raids to get to MPG or RS, just level 69+ for RS.

[Aeght]

Also.

What "they" are saying make sense.

It does not make alot of sence to have to make 2000 useless things to get to 300. They want you to make 1000 usefull things instead.... so they are ajusting for that.

Now I do disagree with the trend of needing to be level 65 to get to skill 300 :/ But that is totally my opinion, and not a "Stance" of EQTC. Of course there are still ways around that as far as I knwo. but the "easy" path is still by getting 65 first.

The problem with that theory is that then we flood the market with 1000 'useful' things EACH... that is tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of 'useful' things. When supply gets that high given the population on any given server, bad things happen to the market, and many competing products are rendered 'useless.'

The alternative would be raw materials supply for the 1000 'useful' things is kept low, and the skill up routes thus made even less viable.

Anyone willing to chip in to pay for some economics classes for the tradeskill devs? Even just a 1st year course should do....

Aeght

[Aeght]

One thing people tend to overlook is when they give us a good item to make using tradeskills the next expansion takes it away.

Augments were a boon to poisonmakers and alchemists in OOW but yet the very next expansion DoN they added the same effects you could make on augments FREAKING BUYABLE at the DON merchants.

Why give us the augments then trivalize it in the very next expansion by making the effects buyable on augment from vendors.

Yes not all effects but most.

And in this case they are talking about adding new recipies where needed to fill in gaps created by trivial nerfing. More than likely those 'new recipies' will be part of the next expansion.... sigh...

I was not always this cynical about EQ....

Aeght

[Angelsyn]

According to this link, as a Half-Elf bard, I need to farm Great Reptile Teeth to do Master level smithing. Unless they increase the drop rate on these items, it is highly unlikely I could use that as a skill up path.

If Sony increaseses the drop rate, then there will be a flood of master level armor on the market, and they don't want that to happen.


The teeth drop off summoning mobs that hit for 350s in PoNightmare. My toon isn't PoEarth flagged, so I dont' know how hard they hit there. I think both of these require you to level up. Maybe you don't have to be 65+, but you had better be in a strong group if not.

Once again, you have skipped right over the Tae Ew smithing taking you to 295. I will also mention at this time that Hurricane Smithing will take you over 300 (all currently trivial at 308).

Yeah, it's hard work... but so is everything worth having.

[Airl]

Once again, you have skipped right over the Tae Ew smithing taking you to 295. I will also mention at this time that Hurricane Smithing will take you over 300 (all currently trivial at 308).

I've done a little hunting in CT. The drop rate on Pristine Scales seems pretty abysmal, but I did get a few bloods. I may reconsider this route after I run out of funds making sickles.

Is the Hurricane smithing route a realistic skill up path? I haven't hunted much in PoStorms, so I don't know the drop rates. It looks like there would be a high dependence on a chanter to make the Emblem of Storms, and I don't think the Sandstorm Pearls from BoT are all that common.

Yeah, it's hard work... but so is everything worth having.

I don't see it as hard work persay, I just see it as a potenially huge time sink to camp the required components for skilling up on these two paths. At least the drop rate for the Tae Ew stuff seems more reasonable than great reptile teeth from PoN.

[Wyvernwill]

Hurricane Smithing isn't all that hard to do and the only real thing you need an enchanter for is a vial of mana for making the copper enchanted.

Sandstorm Pearls are very common actually. You could probably find a lot of them on the vendors in PoK and PoTranq especially. A drop of pure rain is a bit tougher, but still decent to get. Storm Rider Blood is very common and easy to get also.

[Railina]

I'm not sure where the "must get 65" is coming from. If it's from DoN GM symbols, ok. However, the armor itself can be made at lower levels. You don't have to make the symbols as you can quest the pattern book at any level as far as I know.

I don't know about level 65 being necessary, but there are significant advantages to skilling up at level 65+ post PoP. Planar Power (and innate enlightenment for casters, to which melee characters syill have no equivalent) for increased stat based chance of skill-up on failure. Salvage, [Tradeskill] Mastery, New Tanaan Crafting Mastery, and High-level dropped tradeskill mod items with higher mods than tradeskillers can make all provide tradeskill benefits for non-tradeskill character improvement. Ideally, engaging in a given playstyle should produce better rewards for that playstyle than engaging in any other playstyle will. In fact, being a max-level raider will give one a leg up when engaging in any other playstyle. I think that's a poor design, and a bad idea, but i have no delusions that my opinion is going to change the way SOE does business at this stage of the game.

[Ngreth Thergn]

The problem with that theory is that then we flood the market with 1000 'useful' things EACH... that is tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of 'useful' things. When supply gets that high given the population on any given server, bad things happen to the market, and many competing products are rendered 'useless.'

The alternative would be raw materials supply for the 1000 'useful' things is kept low, and the skill up routes thus made even less viable.

Anyone willing to chip in to pay for some economics classes for the tradeskill devs? Even just a 1st year course should do....

Aeght

But you see... they are not looking into the "econimics" of usefull... but the actuall... usefullness of an item. The "level" of the item. It is why "usefull" is in quotes.

By usefull, it means making an item of intrinsic value, if not monetary value.

Making 2000 things that will never have a value... vs making 1000 things that have an intrensic value to them, even if no-one wants to buy them.

[Eggszecutor]

The problem with that theory is that then we flood the market with 1000 'useful' things EACH... that is tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of 'useful' things. When supply gets that high given the population on any given server, bad things happen to the market, and many competing products are rendered 'useless.'
Aeght

Flooding the market with a 1000 of the same item doesn't render those items useless, it just makes them plentiful. The prices for these items won't be very high, but they are still useful.

Besides, with the new skill up formula and proposed minimum-chance-of-skillup method, you should be making fewer combines to get your skillups than pre-DoN, which means less of a flood of items in the market.

[Dalmoth]

In the long run the things that are CONSUMED are the only things that will hold value.

Consumption can come in the way of either use or in the way of tribute. I've sort of been educating my guild mates on getting stuff that I can turn into tribute items for them. And that in turn is helping be get more combines. But, its a slow process as not everyone uses tribute.

But the absolute must have items are charged items that must be recharged. If anything we should be asking for more items with needed effects that are created AND recharged via tradeskills.

[Melenden]

The one thing that I haven't seen anybody address is yet is the farming itself. I don't know if the devs are aware or understand this, but the time invested in obtaining the components should be included in the trivial.

I average a stack of othmir hides for every 90 minutes spent farming. That means that for 50 cap combines I just spent 7.5 hours farming... and I'll probably end up with 5 or 6 skillups from 250. Okay, now move the trivial on othmir to say... 200. Would I spend 7.5 hours farming 7-8 skillups from 190-198? Hell no, not a chance! If you consider the cloaks, that 7.5 hours only nets me 25 combines. Maybe 2-3 skillups. Move that trivial down and I guarantee othmir never gets made again. There is far too much time involved.

So what's left? Okay, they seem to be pushing DoN master and grandmaster cultural on us. I am a high elf, meaning that I only have one master tailoring option: Storm Volaas hairs. Freaking Storms giants! That proc a 250DD with feign death. That are a pain in the butt to paci pull. That hit for 500-600 and have a truckload of hit points. I am lucky in that my gear is pretty nice for a casual cleric (9k hp buffed, 8.5k mana, about 2kAC, 450AA). It takes me about 4 minutes and 20% of my mana to kill a giant. 20 minutes later I'm completely OOM and have killed 5 giants. If I'm lucky I have 4 or 6 hairs. which is... drumroll... one bloody combine of master BP/legs. ONE! 30 minutes of work for ONE COMBINE. That then only has a 10% chance of giving me a skillup, maximum.

Before anyone suggests getting a group to go there... a question for you level 70 folks out there... how many of you will be able to convince a group to go with you to farm YOUR tradeskill components? None? That's what I thought.

The point of all of this is that the quality of the outcome of the combine CAN NOT be the only determinant in the trivial. For the devs to say that "skillup-only" recipes are no longer necessary is insane. Even with everyone farming a particular zone (instanced or not) for xp INCLUDING TS drops the rate at which the drops enter the game is not and never will be high enough to support the vast number of tradeskillers that are out there. There will always need to be recipes that are farmable and soloable to supplement these so-called "useful" recipes and the ones in existence for smithing and tailoring will utterly FAIL to do so even with a 10% minimum skillup chance.

[Eggborn]

The problem with that theory is that then we flood the market with 1000 'useful' things EACH... that is tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of 'useful' things. When supply gets that high given the population on any given server, bad things happen to the market, and many competing products are rendered 'useless.'

The alternative would be raw materials supply for the 1000 'useful' things is kept low, and the skill up routes thus made even less viable.

Anyone willing to chip in to pay for some economics classes for the tradeskill devs? Even just a 1st year course should do....

Aeght

When I learned the skill I do for work in real life, I had to practice a lot. I had to make a lot of useless things that no one would use or see to get where I am. I know this game isn't reality, but it's foolish to think that along the way to becoming a master at something, everything you do to get there "counts" and is useful as a product. It simply isn't, and I am not talking about failures. I am talking about sucesses.

If the designers feel they want to do that , then we should have some sort of option to "practice" our skills at a higher level, instead of ruining all these high priced items if we could ever get a hold of them in the first place that is, or as the above person mentioned, flooding the market with them. The problem of cost can only get worse with these changes. You don't wake up one morning being able to cut diamonds, nor do you go out and buy them to "practice" on them. If you actually have the money to spend on diamonds to learn this skill, then you wouldn't have a better chance at improving your skill just cause you are ruining a bunch of high priced diamonds along the way.