The Silence of it all !

[trapp]

Dosn't it make you wonder how much SOE really cares about it's casual players ( Tradeskillers). We are coming up to a week since a patch which was a total screw up, prematurely going live with nerf to tailor trivials, and broken promises to do a fix to the broken cultural kits.

Despite many players leaving, you can see that in posts here and EQLive, we hear nothing about these two issues.

I personnaly have taken the time to post on SOE boards and sent customer service an email regarding the service ( or lack of it ).

I do appreciate the time taken and patience of the moderators of this wonderful board in trying to help with these issues and allowing us to vent our frustrations.

I would encourage everyone to post thier frustrations on the Forums at EQLive.

I don't expect much response to my email, other than a reply from thier Email Bot.

rant off ! ! Thank you.

[Verdandi]

What do you mean? Maddoc has replied on these boards, mainly in this post, but in a few other places, as well.

You don't have to like what he's said, but he has responded. With considerable courage, I'd think, considering the hostility that's been lurking here. (Not that folks don't have a right to be frustrated. But it's still not easy to wade into the middle of such displeasure.)

[Rissenn]

Heh, two employees of SOE actually do stand out a bit.

Maddoc since he actually comes here to post and really DO answer questions or give info and give the impression that in most cases he actually listens and wants well.

Dannkurt, GM of FV server (retired). I used to think Dannkurt wasnt very good, but then I realised how much he actually did and how fast he responded on petitions and such. He was replaced by someone that takes 5 days to even *reply* to most petitions now and then does the copy&paste thing...

[Bauhb]

What do you mean? Maddoc has replied on these boards, mainly in this post, but in a few other places, as well.

You don't have to like what he's said, but he has responded. With considerable courage, I'd think, considering the hostility that's been lurking here. (Not that folks don't have a right to be frustrated. But it's still not easy to wade into the middle of such displeasure.)

Much of that displeasure has arisen from his response, which quite a few people took as a slap in the face (telling people that have 100k+ worth of useless materials that it will be "worth it"), not to mention the fact that it left the important questions completely unanswered.

If I call the CS line at GE because my toaster got broken, I don't expect the person on the other side to simply say "oops" or "just wait a bit, we're about to come out with something ten times better." I expect the problem to actually be addressed.

I'm sure it is being dealt with over there. I seriously doubt Maddoc decided to go to the bahamas the day after this nerf slipped out. I and other simply want to know whats going on.

[trapp]

I'm sorry Verdandi but there had been no response on the items I posted about in my rant, neither on the EQLive board or here ( except the " we made a mistake " post by Maddoc) prior to the start of this thread. If one reads through the numerous posts on this subject you can see the frustrations about the lack of response.

Yesterday there was finally a response from Absor to the cultural fletch kit issue on the EQLive board, for which I thanked him by the way.

All we want to know: Are ammendments going to be made to the tailoring trivial nerf to help the tradeskillers for the time they spent, and Plat spent on stockpiles of skill up materials, so they can use these as intended. When can we expect a fix on cultural kits.

I don't expect them to reply here. But some response is needed on thier boards.

Oh I received a reply to my email, yes from the Email Bot. It had nothing to to with the subject matter of the email I sent.

The porpose of my post on this board was to scream and vent my frustrations. I may have inadvertantly missed something, but near as I can tell my facts are straight. I have been reading every thread re these issues on the EQLive board, here on your board, and elsewhere.

[Auricula]

Now, as I'm sure you've noticed, some of these changes found their way live, somewhat unexpectedly, and I can understand the frustration at the changes, however...

Most of you should know by know that it's not very often that large changes go un-mentioned, let alone intentionally un-mentioned. The changes we've made to the tradeskill system thus far have largely been for the better, and even though this may cause a little undue hardship right now, overall, I don't think anyone will be dissappointed.

I realize traderskillers are eternal optimists and desperately want to hang on to a belief that someone at EQ has a clue about that aspect of the game, but as was pointed out on the EQlive boards, the statement by Maddoc can be read either of two ways.

Somewhat unexpectedly to whom? Was it unexpected to the devs (there was a reference in the patch message, so ....) or just unexpected to the poor saps who didn't have deep enough pocketbooks and/or the time to skyrocket to 300 in each tradeskill in the first few days that the cap was raised? I just cannot buy the line "I can understand the frustration at the changes". I don't believe the is any understanding of the depth of the frustration, hurt, and anger over this.

Overall, I don't think anyone will be disappointed.
{}I will make a huge leap of logic here that the brand spanking new DoN tradeskill items are an insight into this supposedly master plan. Hmmm ... there are tons of crappy zones that we can't convince folks to spend time in. We tried to revamp a few for the higher end groups/raids, but after a week or so the novelty wears off and they become ghost towns again. I KNOW .... let's force the tradeskillers to drag their friends or guildies to the other ghost-town zones!!! Kedge Keep anyone? Dragon Necropolis? Ice Burrower Silk? Storm Volass? Nightmare Arachind Silk? Racnar Hides? Basilisk Teeth? ::boggle::

[Silverfish]

Auricula wrote:

"Somewhat unexpectedly to whom? Was it unexpected to the devs (there was a reference in the patch message, so ....) or just unexpected to the poor saps who didn't have deep enough pocketbooks and/or the time to skyrocket to 300 in each tradeskill in the first few days that the cap was raised? I just cannot buy the line "I can understand the frustration at the changes". I don't believe the is any understanding of the depth of the frustration, hurt, and anger over this."

You know, I've been watching the boards for a week since this change went live, and I think it's time I spoke my peace about it because there's an amazing lack of perspective in this whole thing. I know I'm going to take it on the chin for this, but I also suspect that it's because the ones that will light into me are the ones that will see themselves in my post.

The simple fact is that I've read too many "this is a slap in the face for all tradeskillers everywhere" and bluntly, I think that's a shovelful. This "stealth nerf" isn't a slap in the face for tradeskillers everywhere, it was a slap in the face for 250-plus tailors who had a bunch of combine ingredients stockpiled. I've done more than my share of tradeskills, I took pottery to 250 right after the nerf to pottery skillups, and overall I've done my time with the combine button. I have a bunch of stuff laid by for tailoring, and a lot of it won't get used for skillups now because of this. That all said, this is a bump in the road for the majority of tradeskillers, who are the minority of Everquest players. If you think that it's a good idea for Sony developers to reverse a change that was supposed to go live anyway (taking a chance at breaking something by doing it) or downing the servers for an emergency patch so that you can use up your stockpile for skillups, then you need to step back and reconsider yourself. Sell your stock to a tailor who isn't up to 252 yet and use the proceeds to buy other components. Go farm othmir instead of wyverns. Get familiar with the Plane of Nightmare, or the Plane of Storms, or the Temple of Cazic-Thule. Dig into your DoN cultural tailoring quests. Find a way around it, just like we have all done so many times before.

If this whole thing is enough to anger you to the point of quitting Everquest, then you're probably better off leaving the game anyway, because in the grand scheme of things, it just shouldn't be that important. This is, after all is said and done, a game.

Silverfish

[KyrosKrane]

Here's another perspective. Before DoN went live, the main purpose of Velious leathers and Solstice robes was to skill up to 250. Let's assume, purely for the sake of argument, that the developers want to KEEP that skillup route to 250. By lowering the trivial to 252, they vastly increase the number of successes, which in turn significantly increases the chance of a skillup. Granted, it makes it harder for tailors to reach 300, but it makes it WAY easier to reach 250. I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing.

(OK, maybe it's bad on Solstice robes where you really DO want to fail, but then Solstice robes become a viable alternative to Wu's or even some of the racial LoY ribbons.)

[Wyvernwill]

(OK, maybe it's bad on Solstice robes where you really DO want to fail, but then Solstice robes become a viable alternative to Wu's or even some of the racial LoY ribbons.)

Not really a "viable" means in my book. Ok, yes they are easily store bought vs farmed, however the cost as exceedingly more than either of those above. Ribbons are costly, but overally Wu's Silk is very cheap to do... people would be slightly nuts to work SCR over Wu's. Yes, 4 Heady Kiola a shot is tedious, but Imbuing 3 Emeralds per combine, making 4 Celestial Essence a combine, the Gem Studded chains... no thanks, rather do wus =)

[Kahmon]

Here's another perspective. Before DoN went live, the main purpose of Velious leathers and Solstice robes was to skill up to 250. Let's assume, purely for the sake of argument, that the developers want to KEEP that skillup route to 250. By lowering the trivial to 252, they vastly increase the number of successes, which in turn significantly increases the chance of a skillup. Granted, it makes it harder for tailors to reach 300, but it makes it WAY easier to reach 250. I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing.

If I had focused on Tailoring first and gotten to 300 on Velious Stuff before Sony FUBAR'd Tailoring then I probably wouldn't care either.

[rasi]

What i am missing here is a reaction on the message Absor sends the tradeskill community : the overall tradeskilling will take 15% less skill-ups to reach 300 but by coincidence the part 250 - 300 will be harder than it would have been in the old system. Not only they screw tradeskillers with great stocks ( not me as i was lucky) but now they ll make it harder to get skill-ups over 250. Insult over injury again. Now the tradeskillers that haven t gotten to 250 in 1 or several tradeskills are a minority which of course explains the smoothening out of the curve.... in the disadvantage of the tradeskillers AGAIN. Another strange thing : the joy over the cultural armor for half-elves... as anyone seen what the grandmaster tunic gives as stats? AC 18 +2 on a number of stats.... what gave you guys the idea that someone will wear this? pure crap.
It s a miracle that the board here is staying so polite and moderate in the reactions about these changes. Maybe as a small advice to sony... why don t you get a few people that like eq as a game instead of that bunch that is killing a perfect good game....maybe even a few people that play a high level toon and do some tradeskilling themselves so that they know what they are talking about.
The crap and the lies told by the devs here on these boards ... if i hadn t read it myself i wouldn t believe it if someone else told me.

rasi Lyonesse
Frayed Knot
tailoring 250
brewing 250
baking 250
juwelcraft 250
blacksmithing 250
pottery 229
fletching 201

[Pulvani]

*slight derail*

For all of you who are upset that you are now sitting on stacks and stacks of supplies rendered (somewhat) useless, give 'em to me! I'm not even 200 tailoring yet

[Saleani]

Well, I was reading an essay that I felt had a lot to do with what's happening both here and elsewhere.

How can it be, visitors must wonder. How can the richest country in the world look like this?

Oddly enough, it may not be a coincidence. Americans are good at some things and bad at others. We're good at making movies and software, and bad at making cars and cities. And I think we may be good at what we're good at for the same reason we're bad at what we're bad at. We're impatient. In America, if you want to do something, you don't worry that it might come out badly, or upset delicate social balances, or that people might think you're getting above yourself. If you want to do something, as Nike says, just do it.
...
In software, paradoxical as it sounds, good craftsmanship means working fast. If you work slowly and meticulously, you merely end up with a very fine implementation of your initial, mistaken idea. Working slowly and meticulously is premature optimization. Better to get a prototype done fast, and see what new ideas it gives you.
...
The trouble is, the very word "taste" sounds slightly ridiculous to American ears. It seems pretentious, or frivolous, or even effeminate. Blue staters think it's "subjective," and red staters think it's for sissies. So anyone in America who really cares about design will be sailing upwind.

Twenty years ago we used to hear that the problem with the US car industry was the workers. We don't hear that any more now that Japanese companies are building cars in the US. The problem with American cars is bad design. You can see that just by looking at them.

All that extra sheet metal on the AMC Matador wasn't added by the workers. The problem with this car, as with American cars today, is that it was designed by marketing people instead of designers.

Why do the Japanese make better cars than us? Some say it's because their culture encourages cooperation. That may come into it. But in this case it seems more to the point that their culture prizes design and craftsmanship.

Source

If I call the CS line at GE because my toaster got broken, I don't expect the person on the other side to simply say "oops" or "just wait a bit, we're about to come out with something ten times better." I expect the problem to actually be addressed.

Bauhb has pointed out something very important about the difference between software and hardware. If software was treated legally like a product, you would end up broke and/or in prison for foisting defective products on the market. Just think about the differences between your legal rights if you purchased a defective toaster versus purchasing a defective program. The best thing that could possibly happen for the public would be for software programs to be legally liable for their defects. Do we let car companies manufacture cars that explode and incinerate their occupants? No. Why should software makers get off scott free for making crap? If Microsoft made cars, they would explode, and no one would think it odd, since they had to press a button that said "I accept" to some weasel words that expressly weaseled out of all responsibility for being responsible. If some company made toasters that burnt down your house, would it be ok because the weasel words on the side of the box said that opening the box constituted a legal agreement to bend over and take it in the shorts?

Disclosure: I write software for a living.

[Sulkano]

Well, if you had to hit the 'I accept' button before you drove your car, then yes, the terms in the agreement would apply, just as they do in the game. Just becasue you might dismiss all the legalese in there as gibberish doesnt make it any less valid.

[splunge]

Disclosure: I write software for a living.

BAHAHAHAH! I like this guy.....