Hmmmm Augments

[Demorgoth]

Sorry to have to say it.. BUT... if you want to do alchemy, be a shaman... if you want to make poisons, be a rogue. EQ is about differences of the classes/race/et al... not everyone being the same.

You are not "completely prevented" from doing the JC combine. You may choose not to take the risk, but that is a choice you make.... as Kheera shows.

I have always agreed tradeskills should not require aa's, and should be unrelated to anythign but skill in whatever tradeskill you're using.

Tradeskills are.. get this... TRADESKILLS. They SHOULD NOT be a reward for uber_guild_raiders.

Your opinion isn't consistant whatsoever. Either you believe that tradeskills should be open to all, or that they should be restricted based upon the choices you make. The choice to get a few AA is trivially easy compared to the choice to 'be a rogue'. Getting a shaman to L70 with extended alchemy AAs is exponentially more difficult and time consuming than getting into the elemental planes.

If you can justify a large proportion of an expansion's tradeskill content being blocked off based on an arbitrary value such as class, it's just as valid to block it off via an arbritrary value such as AA or progression. Picking and choosing the limitations on the basis of how they effect you personally is no foundation for a coherent argument.

[Akishka]

Correct me if I'm wrong but couldn't you make a level 1 rogue and GM poison? With the new fancy titles, you could even prove that you are a GM.

[Liwsa]

poison is level based have to be a level 60 rogue to get poison to 250.

[KanadWinterstorm]

No, you couldn't... because poison and alchemy are both level capped. You have to be lvl 45 to even make 100 skill in alchemy, and I'd think people would be loathe to lvling a mule that high just to tradeskill.

[KanadWinterstorm]

Oh, I believe the current skill cap for poison and alchemy is 230 (for a lvl 70 character)

[Koru]

They got this because compared to other trades these trades had very little to sell. I have sold potions for a shaman friend, they moved even slower than my tinkered toys. I mean look at poison making and tell me aside from 2-3 quest poisons what you were going to make with that skill? Don't say poisons, you can't sell the PoP poisons that are actually useful because they're no drop and even if you could your market would consist only of other rogues who presumably will do their own poison making since the only way you can get your 10 slot poison combining thingie is by mastering poisons.

Now, if the argument is that alchemy, poison making and tinkering shouldn't have any marketable or desired things to make because they're restricted skills - I'll take FD, sneak, mez, innate invis and defensive disc for my paladin please, yes it is the same thing, ability to do something in the game that's restricted to class or race. It's the way the game is made, some classes or races get things others do not get. I'd love to have innate sneak, it would make questing sooo much easier. But I picked a dwarf instead of halfling so I don't get it. And I haven't seen anyone scream at how unfair it is that gnomes get to make things no other race can make.

Seriously, this isn't a new restriction. The only difference is that now these two skills can actually make something worthwhile, which will of course bring the green eyed monster out because something that makes this nice items everyone wants. Poison making had this upgrade coming and I'm glad that skill finally got something to make. Ditto for alchemy, although they at least had more than 2 items they could sell before this.

[Angelsyn]

Take a look at my Magelo's...

You'll see that I've made 2 Livestone BPs, 1 Livestone Greaves, 1 Livestone Vambraces. I've also made 2 Livestone Chain Leggings, 1 Livestone Chain Tunic & 1 Livestone Chain Sleeves.

I've failed on 1 Livestone Vambraces & 1 Livestone Chain Sleeves.

I'm currently 1 Metallic Substance away from an Inferno Plate attempt... though I may wait to get 2 so I can try for the BP instead of the Vambraces I'd originally wanted, so long ago. (Metallic Substances are too rare and too hard to get... but that's another rant entirely!)

All of these items, including my GM Trophy, have been made while at 242-244 skill & no AAs. Heck, I only recently hit 51 with my Cleric!

So yeah, the "Mastery" AAs are nice... (and I intend on getting Blacksmithing Mastery one day, just because) but certainly not anything like a requirement to safely combine!

I'd say that "Salvage" would be a better one to strive for first, since it affects all tradeskills.

[Moraganth]

Your opinion isn't consistant whatsoever. Either you believe that tradeskills should be open to all, or that they should be restricted based upon the choices you make. The choice to get a few AA is trivially easy compared to the choice to 'be a rogue'.

My opinion is consistant. Tradeskills should be open for everyone, and should NEVER have upgrades available to anyone because they have gone out and gotten experience doing anything other than doing tradeskills. Using AA's to increase secondary ts's over 200 was a POOR way to implement such. Using AA's to implement JCM was a POOR way to implement such. Using AA's to implement all the other mastery skills was a POOR way to do it.

That said .. Poison Making, Alchemy, and Tinkering are NOT tradeskills. They are RACIAL or CLASS skills. Period.

Getting a shaman to L70 with extended alchemy AAs is exponentially more difficult and time consuming than getting into the elemental planes.

I would disagree. While it may be more difficult for a raid (which i disagree with also, but might be willing to conceede if a person spends 100% of their time raiding, they won't ever have time to level), ANYONE can get to level 70 and gain AA. Becomeing Elemental flagged REQUIRES you raid, which may people cannot do from time contraints (you know, those peopel with reall lives somewhere that doesn't involve sitting in front of a computor), or from the sheer lack of ability, or desire, to gather 70+ people at a single place/time for an event.

If you can justify a large proportion of an expansion's tradeskill content being blocked off based on an arbitrary value such as class, it's just as valid to block it off via an arbritrary value such as AA or progression.

These aren't arbitrary.. they're called CLASS SKILLS. It's a lot like me complainging now 5 years down the road that i can't tank uber_mob_01 because i picked playing a chanter. Tanking isn't a skill that's open to all classes, never was, never will be (we hope).

Picking and choosing the limitations on the basis of how they effect you personally is no foundation for a coherent argument.

... you're right.. read your arguement again, and put it through that filter. Because you want everythign doesn't mean that's how it will be, and certainly doesn't mean that's how it should be. Alchemy and Poison Making have NEVER been open to everyone... and everyone SHOULD know that. Koru said it best...

Seriously, this isn't a new restriction. The only difference is that now these two skills can actually make something worthwhile, which will of course bring the green eyed monster out because something that makes this nice items everyone wants. Poison making had this upgrade coming and I'm glad that skill finally got something to make. Ditto for alchemy, although they at least had more than 2 items they could sell before this.

Maybe you should note.. i'm not a shaman, or a rogue. I'm personally GLAD they finally got something useful to do.

[Moraganth]

I'd say that "Salvage" would be a better one to strive for first, since it affects all tradeskills.

Salvage.. /drrooolll

[Ngreth Thergn]

Poisonmaking is easily as difficult as tailoring. Almost every single recipe requires drops (just like tailoring) PLUS it is level restricted, and they have *ONE* thing they can sell.

Alchemy may be the most expensive tradeskill to skill up where you have no other option but to spend money on it (Smithing may be more expensive in the end... but with smithing you have a CHOICE of getting drops and spending less money) And then has only a few marketable things once they have spent all that money.

They needed something. They got something.

And don't take this as me squelching your "right" to be upset. Be upset, ruin the game for yourself by stressing over this and saying it is all SOE's fault that the game is ruined for you. It is your choice. I am just giving my opinion of it. I have them too

Smithing and Tailoring got some EXTREMELY marketable things also, and you can all do that. The pottery will also likely get some good market.

Again, not squelching your "right" to be upset and stressed over this, just stating my opinion. (the you applies to no particular person)

[Zaephod]

The biggest thing i'm unhappy abut with the current Gear/Augs is that the Omens gear seems to be significantly lacking in focus effects. Basicly forcing you to buy Augs for focues. so now you have to camp that dropped item and then spend 10+k (for components) for a shot at the focus effect you need.

The Caveat here is that it's still early and I haven't seen raid level loot so I may be completely off base.

[Demorgoth]

Moraganth, the fact you cannot raid is down to CHOICES you make. You have 24 hours in your day, just as I have 24 hours in my day. You have all expansions enabled, as do I. Beyond that is up to you. You can CHOOSE to use as many or as little of those playing EQ as you want. You've got a job, family, or other commitments that hinder your fitting into a raiding guild's schedule? Those are all choices, and often overexageration of the impression you need to raid 8 hours a night, 7 days a week to get into elemental planes. You can choose not to raid, or not to be restricted by a raiding guild's expectations, but you cannot ignore the fact that it's a choice.

Maybe you should note.. i'm not a shaman, or a rogue. I'm personally GLAD they finally got something useful to do.

They have plenty useful to do LOL. If you want to give extra tradeskill cash to 'downtrodden' classes, then forget about rogues and shaman, and give it to SKs and necros. I don't think any rogue in the game would except 'you have new poison recipes' as a class balance argument lol. I'd already guessed you were a sub-200aa L65+ non-raiding enchanter - how close was I?

People seem to be speaking like those with poison or alchemy cannot also do the other tradeskills. They can. However much or little they get from the class restricted tradeskills, it is always in ADDITION to what's universally available.

That said .. Poison Making, Alchemy, and Tinkering are NOT tradeskills. They are RACIAL or CLASS skills. Period.

Are we to see a 'sneak' or 'slam' section on EQTraders in the near future then? Spell lists and disciplines? They are very obviously tradeskills, class/race restricted sure, but tradeskills none-the-less.

They needed something. They got something.

The SKILLS themselves might've needed something, but they should've gone about it in the same way they did with fletching. Pre-PoP there was very little worth making with fletching. Dropped bows were superior to any fletched bows, and arrows weren't a hot-selling comodite. Introducing new fletching recipes revitalised the tradeskill, and all was good.

They got this because compared to other trades these trades had very little to sell

Whilst the restricted skills themselves weren't the most profitable, all the universal tradeskills were open to everyone with them. They didn't need to compare directly to smithing or tailoring because they were 'in addition to' those.

What can you make a profit from by using pottery?

How about fishing, or is that not a 'real' tradeskill? What about baking or brewing then? Sure, there is a slow 'ticking over' of food/drink goods, but the profit margins are so low, noone's ever gonna get rich churning out MTPs and competing with the macroers.

I'm not protesting about these restricted tradeskills getting new recipies. I'm complaining that they are required as a core componant of such a large amount of an entire expansion's high end tradekskill content, especially since it's the most exciting and new concept to hit tradeskilling in years

I even understand WHY they did it, something nobody here has mentioned yet. They want to promote interraction and include as many people as possible in the process.

And don't take this as me squelching your "right" to be upset. Be upset, ruin the game for yourself by stressing over this and saying it is all SOE's fault that the game is ruined for you. It is your choice. I am just giving my opinion of it. I have them too

Hehe, no need to tread no eggshells, I always start off with the assumption that if I can't take people disagreeing with me, then I shouldn't disagree with them in the first place. Nothing's ruined, and I'm certainly not lying awake at night quietly sobbing to myself over the issue. Without differing opinions, life would be boring.

[Moraganth]

You need to calm down before posting again. This is bordering on personal attacks if it hasn't already crossed the line. If you'd like to post on the issue at hand, do so, but personal attacks are not permitted in any fashion. - Cantatus

[Angelsyn]

The biggest thing i'm unhappy abut with the current Gear/Augs is that the Omens gear seems to be significantly lacking in focus effects. Basicly forcing you to buy Augs for focues. so now you have to camp that dropped item and then spend 10+k (for components) for a shot at the focus effect you need.

The Caveat here is that it's still early and I haven't seen raid level loot so I may be completely off base.

I saw a nice healing focus shoulder piece for clerics & a few damage focus range pieces in the Bazaar.

It's still early.

[Moraganth]

Some little named Murkglider in the first zone dropped a mana preservation 3 shoulder or back piece. I haven't explored much, but i'd take that as a decent sign.