Trade Skills Becoming Useless for Profits

[Tejaye]

After reading through these boards and spending time in the bazaar, it is clear that Tradeskills for profits have become useless.
Back in late 1999 and early 2000 folks started to lose profits from Banded armor, etc as players had access to better armor through drops and quests. It seemed Jewelry was the only thing offering profits by late 2000.
When the Tradeskills were expanded to create Cultural and other uber items as time went on, it was great doing Tradeskills since the player found it fun to do Tradeskills, plus he made profits.
Now with Ornate and other items destroying all profits......do you think in the future Tradeskills will be expanded somehow and profits will return?

[Myrron]

Gonna move this over to Primal Scream at first, since these types of topics usually get heated. If this ends up being a productive discussion, I might move it back to GD. Remember folks, no SOE bashing please. Carry on,

--Myrron

[Teedyo]

Oh, I don't know. In my (albeit limited) experience:

Fight -> Loot -> Tradeskill = Profit

Bazaar -> Loot -> Tradeskill = Primal Scream


Myrron: Don't you know that SOE peeps wear a Greater Cloak of Fool's Reflection!? Any bashing directed towards them makes the basher look like a fool!?

[Nairn Niteraven]

First off, I'm a Druid which obviously means I Forage and Port. I'm 250 in Baking and Brewing and 200 in all the rest (just haven't finished the AA's I need yet), and I've made more money than I ever spent getting those to that level; admittedly, the expensive ones are yet to come.

Mainly, my income is on Qeynos Afternoon Teas and Misty Picnics; I really don't know how many thousands I've made from just those two, and I can't make them as fast as they sell. Get Brewing as high as you can, make friends with some Foragers who don't mind hunting in East Karana (even better if you can Forage too). Tea Leaves, Spider Silk and Pelts (Leather Padding); you can make a fortune off those things.

I don't see why you're not making a profit unless you're only looking to make high ticket items. Never overlook Tradeskill subcombines if you want to make some money; it's slow, but it's consistent. If you're willing to do the time, the money's there.

[kiatek]

I agree that the profits are there. You just have to look at the right things (and being in the right place at the right time sometimes doesn't hurt).

I have made alot of PP off tradeskilling and NOT just selling subcombine parts. it also takes a little bit of work. I made money off of tunarean soldier armor but that takes work. Granted that is cultural, but there are still lots of opportunities in other areas. If you want big ticket items, yes those opportunities are gradually fading away. But a little work with smaller stuff goes a long way.

Also takes a bit of patience

[elty]

Well, the only trade skill that is totally not profitable is poison making

[Angelsyn]

I've made huge profits off Tradeskills...

I've also made huge profits off market manipulations... lucky vendor purchases... selling for others...

I even make decent profits off every trip to LGuk. If you can't make 200+pp a night in LGuk (at level 50+, mind you... sustained killing can be a little rough at lower levels), then you're not trying.

Just remember, even those tarnished/rusty weapons that skeletons drop are worth cash... If your bags get full before you reach a vendor, then drop the least valuable (and often the non-stackable) items first.

[Annalina Romanov]

Profitability also depends on the server. Fennin Ro, being one of the older servers, is also the one of the more difficult servers to earn economic profits (as opposed to normal profits, which only pay for costs). For example, when mistloetoe sickles were going for 3,000 PP on average across most servers, the same sickles were going for 2,000 PP at most on Fennin Ro. It was also fairly difficult to sell Heraldic Armor at its introduction as a good number of people had already farmed the heck out of the Temple of Veeshan.

Incidentally, I suspect that the only way for the durable goods sectors of tradeskills (typically the tailoring and smithing areas, maybe others) to not, at least, lose in value is to implement item degradation (much as in real life) all across the board. Of course, we all know how unpopular THAT solution will be . . .

-Annalina Romanov

[Draggar]

I've made huge profits off Tradeskills...

I've also made huge profits off market manipulations... lucky vendor purchases... selling for others...

I even make decent profits off every trip to LGuk. If you can't make 200+pp a night in LGuk (at level 50+, mind you... sustained killing can be a little rough at lower levels), then you're not trying.

Just remember, even those tarnished/rusty weapons that skeletons drop are worth cash... If your bags get full before you reach a vendor, then drop the least valuable (and often the non-stackable) items first.

Full agreeance here.

Misty picnics still provide a hefty profit in most servers (if your skill is >200, but the higher, the better).

Fletching can provide a steady (but low) profit with arrows in the bazaar.

Not only that, depending on the server, you can make a profit making heady kiolas, JumJum beer and other subcombines with brewing.

Add in metal bits, boning, studs with smithing.

Add in picnic baskets, silk swatches / threads, and leather paddings with tailoring

CE's with baking,

Drop of mercury, amber resin etc.. with poison making

Alchemists make a killing on my server (my guild leader is a shaman, so I know the costs on the potions), but you'll need to be high level.

Not only that, look at the TS you're working on and plan ahead. I have a tinkerer who's still is in the 130's yet I'm constantly eyeing for coiled springs. Sure, I can sell all the ones i have for 150PP, but then I'd have to turn around and buy them for just as much later. So, when I see them on a merchant, I buy them. When I see them less than 50PP on a trader in the bazaar, I buy them. That will seriosuly reduce my costs when I make collapsible containers (saving at least 100PP per combine is nice). I've poured about 8K inot him so far, and he's pulled in less then 2K in raw sales (I haven't figured in the cost yet, it I'm sure the profit margin isn't too high on the 2K). Right now his biggest seller is a collapsible fishing pole. Cost is about 6-7PP, I sell them at 20PP each (which I think is a fair price for +3% fishing mod, as opposed ot the psople who sell them at 50-100PP).

I'd say 90%-95% of TS items are mainly for skilling up and personal use, and you'll never sell an item that turns over a *HUGE* profit. Take it little by little, and then turn it around to work on those TSs. You're not going to turn a huge profit overnight unless you're extremely lucky.

If I wanted to, I could go to EK and kill spiders by the gross, have tons of silk swatches and sell them QUICKLY at 150PP per stack at the bazaar, (and if I needed to, I will). But, that would take just about an entire day, and then we get into the whole "time = money" argument.

Take it in, little by little, and don't pass up an opprotunity to save platinum. Hunt for fine steel weapons, make HQ ore out of them, and in return, make HQ studs / rings. That saves you a lot of PP when working on smithing, and so on.

I think the best summary is (once quoted on this board, but I keep on forgetting who said it forst), "To make a small fortune with tradeskills, first you'll need to start with a large fortune".

[Frerin the Smith]

There are two lessons you need to really understand to make money in the bazaar.

The first lesson is appropriate turn over. I use the word "appropriate" due to the fact that too many people think all turn over is good. It's not good if it's a market item, it's only good if it's an expendable item. For example, tainted planar essence or flawless rockhopper hides are good turn over items. They are used for skilling up by large numbers of people and are not resellable in general. Setting a price that will have these move over a 1 to 2 day period is a nice source of income.

The second lesson is patience. This is for items that are entering the market to stay. Due to the lack of item decay, most usable items eventually get to a saturation point where the effort of selling them is not worth the effort or item slot used up. Don't be in a hurry to sell items that you can replace but will likely not be able to continue selling forever.

Cultural armor is an example. I sell my Dwarven BD armor for 5k per sheet. I only sell my current suit, so I have no inventory or overhead. I'm also not in a hurry to sell it as I still use it and am therefore not wasting space in my bank. I have had countless people "helpfully" send me tells letting me know that so and so is selling a BP for 8k, so I need to lower my price. I don't. So and so sells theirs that night and three days later mine sells for 15k.

Being patient pays off on marketable goods, but you do have to be aware of the market. If so and so puts a bunch of similar items up for half the price, he could be burning off inventory, trying to get into the market, or looking at my prices and thinking that I am ripping people off. Likely, so and so will grow tired of the work needed to make such little margins and be gone in a week or two. He made the mistake of trying to turn over market items and he lacked patience.

Final thought. You have 80 slots available to sell items with: USE THEM. Find a black sapphire on a vendor? Buy it and set it at bazaar prices even if you haven't sold them before. 6 A Mug of Sea Foam's? Set them for 30pp each and watch them go. Spider silk, greyhopper hides, Polished Bone Bracelet, etc. Know the going bazaar price for as many items as possible and fill those 80 slots with as much as you can. You might have no one buy anything for a couple of days, but keep a good inventory as full as possible. It's like fishing with a drag net. Occasionally you will make the big catch, but over time, the little catches are what puts you in the black.

[Remi]

The easiest way to profit from tradeskills is to farm for all of your ingredients, not rely on buying them in the bazaar. Then, anything you do make and sale is pure profit, excluding your farming time. Also, while farming, you can pick up other saleable items (e.g. while farming for panther skins and yew leaves for tailoring, I also got 20 or so Haze Panther eyes that I've sold in the bazaar; while farming for silks in EK, kill griffons for feathers). It takes longer, requires patience, but it's how I mastered the trades without going broke and actually making a bit of a profit with no extra effort.

[Kcalehc]

The easiest way to profit from tradeskills is to farm for all of your ingredients, not rely on buying them in the bazaar. Then, anything you do make and sale is pure profit, excluding your farming time. Also, while farming, you can pick up other saleable items (e.g. while farming for panther skins and yew leaves for tailoring, I also got 20 or so Haze Panther eyes that I've sold in the bazaar; while farming for silks in EK, kill griffons for feathers). It takes longer, requires patience, but it's how I mastered the trades without going broke and actually making a bit of a profit with no extra effort.

In some circumstances this is a false economy. If you can earn more money doing raids/xp in the same amount of time than you can sell the items you are making from your farming then you aren't making a profit - technically. Yes you still come out with more money than you started with, but not as much as you could have had if you hadn't done the farming.

But then if you enjoy that more the profit is all yours.

[Abazagaroth]

Aid Grimel is what has ruined tradeskill profitability.

When someone says "tradeskills aren't profitable anymore" they are usually talking in reference to being 250 in a skill and making a profit doing stuff that only a 250ish skilled person could reasonably succeed enough on to make it worthwhile.

I didn't become a "Grand Master Smith" to break my wrist doing 50-150 trivial subcombines to take advantage of rich, lazy, or impatient people unwilling to put in the time yet needing to skill up for a quest.

Baking/brewing are not applicable for the problems associated with mudflation and tradeskills and profitability. They use consumable products and hence demand does not peak and then collapse, AND they don't compete against dropped items at all.

Baking can be done in a couple nights for very little plat. Brewing can be done in one night for almost nothing at all (and with the new UI, no more marathon clicking sessions /rude). So what if you can go through some tedious combines (banking on nothing more than people unwilling to do all that clicking in order to fuel demand for your product) and make a couple hundred pp? What about the tailor or smith that spent 100-500kpp to become a "grand master" and yet their biggest money makers is farming velium/silk/acrylia/hopper hides?

Don't get me wrong, let me make clear that I personally don't care. When it isn't profitable I don't do it, and I'm personally happy just to have the skills as an accomplishment, but I certainly understand the concerns players have.

Heck, there's even the argument that tradeskills shouldn't be profitable (after all, they were originally mainly a plat sink (except jewelry anyway)). However, there is seriously something wrong when someone with little to no skill is able to make as much or more profit than someone with a maxed skill, because a high level quest requiring a certain skill level results in people with a lot of plat to burn willing to spend it on subcombines to skill up.

[thrashette]

You guys are silly

Aid Grimel is what has ruined tradeskill profitability.

When someone says "tradeskills aren't profitable anymore" they are usually talking in reference to being 250 in a skill and making a profit doing stuff that only a 250ish skilled person could reasonably succeed enough on to make it worthwhile.

And they are just wrong. There are still profits to be made from tradeskills at high levels. They key is what it has always been--knowing the market and being patient to sell at a profit.

No, you can't just throw any old crap together and sell it for 50k any more. That was a free lunch, and we know that those do not exist long-term.

On the other hand, if you are aware of what sells and why it sells, you can make as good money per time as if you farmed drops.

I make 100k+ every week off tradeskills. I don't work at it. My time input is only buying components from vendors and the bazaar and doing combines. I have a steady, large income caused by me being a 1750 who has good other resources and who knows what items are profitable in my market.

[Abazagaroth]

Maybe on your server. There is not a single PoP level combine that can be profitable from buying components on my server outside of a couple of JC combines with ~5-10% margins, a couple of smithing combines like the 3-4 pieces of hurricane stuff that still sells for ~10-20% margins, that I can think of that is profitable. Maybe a good run of luck on stonewood bows could net you a profit, but on average even the price on those (at 80-100k per combine) is going to be a losing proposition in the long run unless you can farm the stuff yourself, and even then, you're better off just selling the components.

Seeing liquified earth going for 100kpp each doesn't make for possible profit in high level tradeskills =P

As I said, it doesn't affect me. I can make plat whenever I want/need, I know what sells and what doesn't and what's worth it, but it does affect a lot of people, and they do have a valid complaint.