Cheating and smithing

[OberonMiM]

they just need to reduce the price a vendor will buy an item for depending on how many it has purchased already.

You think a vendor is gonna buy an item for 17 plat when he has a stock of 90000 of em? no hes gonna offer you silver for it instead.

If macroers are forced to goto different vendors to continue macroing then they will undoubtedly move too far from the forge and allow other people to take it :P

[Krazick]

Yes, in a real-world economy, a vendor would not continue to buy at Price XX if they are "over-stocked".

But EQ Vendors do not generally pay attention to their inventory when deciding on a price. It is not part of the equation (although it probably should be).

Also, note that EQ Vendors have bottomless pockets of cash. Which is another radical departure from any real-world sense.

So, if a Vendor were to be looking at buying an item X... it does make more sense to:

A. Look at how many of Item X they have in stock

and

B. Look at how much Plat they have

[drtyaty]

Re: profit from combines

Originally posted by trethyl
it has been clearly stated by soe that in no case are you to be able to make profit from combines where all materials are vendor bought. if you do any combine where you buy all the materials and the end result is sold to the vendor for than the total cost of the items it takes to make it then the priceing is wrong somewhere

I would like a reference to this please. I do not care really, but if you are going to quote SOE rules for people, I would like to see them.

Thanks.

[Galain]

His quote was based on a post by Absor I assume. He did however get it a little wrong. Absor said that it is ok to make a small profit off all vendor-buyable recipes, but that if you were making a large return on your investment (I guess 150%), then it is obviously a bug. He also mentioned that you should /bug the recipe if you find it.

[drtyaty]

Actually

Actually, this is in response to Trethyl's post, and I found it to be highly suspicious.

I for one have never read all the rules, as the majority of people have not. However, that quote sounds a little ridiculous to me, and I would like to see some support for it. I highly doubt this is against SOE's policy. I also highly doubt that the Absor made the comments that Galain was referring to either.

What is happening it sounds like to me is people imposing their moralistic interpretations of SOE rules into this thread, with little to no foundation for them.

All I am suggesting is we get some cold hard facts in this thread.

[eniamn]

a little bit is fine. if you are using it to lower costs for something else great more power to you. if you stand at the forge all dang day doing it you are . look in some of the recent exploit discussion threads for the quote. that was what i got from them.

[Cantatus]

This thread has gone off the topic of smithing and more into the exploits. Bumping it to PSR.

[Grimina]

Actually Absor did talk about what Galain posted. (dunno about the other, but with the fact that all recipes you COULD make a profit off of have been changed...would lead one to the supposition that we really aren't supposed to make any kind of profit off all vendor-sold recipes)

Found it here from TNZ

If it's a "small profit", go for it. But if it's obviously an error in the price the merchant pays for the item, don't. If you can make it for a few silver and sell it for several plat, that's a bug. And abusing a bug to advance your character is exploiting.

[drtyaty]

Well, I think that is crap

Sounds like someone just speaking about their moralistic views of the game. Unless it was posted somewhere under their own rules at their website, sounds like a bunch of dunn to me. I don't see any reference to any particular SOE rules in that post. If they screwed it up, sounds like their fault to me; don't see how they can come back on someone that discovered it.

That sort of stuff goes on all the time. Wrong? Probably so, but that's not a rule which players are bound by imo.

[sumamael]

You are probably right Drtyaty that there are no rules set in stones about this, however please remember that when you click YES on the log-in screen you agree to a very interesting rule that say it's SOE's right to terminate your account on a whim.

It doesn't matter if you think you are using a designe feature or you are exploiting a bug if SOE thinks you are exploiting you will be warned/suspened/banned.

So do as Absor said, don't go out of your way to abuse a bug.

[drtyaty]

Never have, never Would

Just wanted to see where these "so called" rules & policy were coming from.

That is also why they ought to outright ban every player selling pp, items, and characters for cash. No one legally owns anything in game. That stuff is comprised of pixels, licensed to you by Sony. In fact, I would say those pixels are copyrighted given to you to use by Sony. You don't like it, don't play.

It would sort of be like someone saying they were going to sue me for libel or slander over something I said about them in game. Who have I libeled or slandered? NO ONE. I have libeled and slandered your character in game, which will never be actionable. The character is pixels, just like everything else.

I never much followed the whole legal battle they fought over the right to the items people accumulated in game, but unless their attorneys didn't have one inkling of intelligence, they should prevail on some silly legal argument like that.

[Quichon]

IF you want to spend all those hours of your time making items and reselling them for some profit, I see no problem with it. Heck, I make a tidy profit on Heady Koilas all the time in the bazaar, that's all store purchased. My issue is with macros, which I absolutly detest.

If, for example, I were to use a recipie that had a total profit of (as an example) one plat per combine, and I could do one combine a min (not unusual for me, since I often have mistakes), then I could make 60 plat an hour. I could also go to farm giants for WAY more plat. In addition, it is mind-numbingly boring, so few would really want to do that for money.

But where I have an issue is where someone makes a macro which can go much faster than I can. With no errors and without spending any time, he can make, say, three times as fast. So he makes 180pp an hour. Still not that bad, right? Then he puts up six or seven accounts all macroing the same combine... that is where you get tonz o plat. Espically considering macros don't have to eat or sleep so you can have them going 24/7.

I also absolutly detest *certain websites* who sell pp and other IG items for RL cash. I certainly hope they get caught and banned.

For the good of all tradeskillers, if you suspect a Macro, throw something into the works. A rusty sword or dagger, a water flask, some ration, heck even anything foraged or summoned will work. If it's a macro it'll be messed up, if it's a person then he'll ask about the item, just say it's a gift and walk off.

[splunge]

I did that myself. Saw someone movin around back and forth to a forge, and when they moved away, i put a foraged berries in the forge. About 45 seconds later an OOC askin who was puttin stuff in the forge... I just giggled to myself and zoned. =)

[Abazagaroth]

I petitioned an obvious bot in qeynos and will continue to do so. Macros used to generate limitless plat is ridiculous.

I know of several recipes that are profitable from storebought components, and I see no problem if someone wants to sit there hours on end clicking in order to make a profit (the amount made per time is just not worth my time, but may be worth others, hell, would have been worth my time 3 years ago).

Both recipes I can think of off-hand both require HQ ore, so you can't do them constantly without farming the unrefined ore quest. Silver picks (whose recipes WAS being used by macroers, and had its costs changed to "fix" it, but still nets a big profit in terms of %, just not in pure plat, but enough that someone that can enchant the silver could make a decent bit of plat per hour if they can click as fast as I do), and small bricks of HQ ore to large bricks and then the large vendored can make you some plat if you wanted to farm the quest parts and then click all day long.

The margin is small, you would have to click click click until your wrist fell off, and I see no problem with that.

I see a problem with people macroing and cheating.

I don't know about the ore conversion issue as being purposeful (they lowered the price of small bricks from ~5.5pp to ~1.7pp in a recent patch, which makes it an option), but the silver pick thing was being abused and WAS changed to have the sellback price of the item reduced by one fourth, so while I petitioned the original recipe, I didn't see much point in petitioning that one when it was purposely changed by a patch to deal with macroers, but was still left profitable.

My time is better spent, because the plat/time is not high enough to bother with, but I bet it would be to some n00b, and if some n00b can figure out the recipes....*shrug* more power to them as long as they don't cheat.

[Itek]

Re: Well, I think that is crap

Originally posted by drtyaty
Sounds like someone just speaking about their moralistic views of the game. Unless it was posted somewhere under their own rules at their website, sounds like a bunch of dunn to me. I don't see any reference to any particular SOE rules in that post. If they screwed it up, sounds like their fault to me; don't see how they can come back on someone that discovered it.

That sort of stuff goes on all the time. Wrong? Probably so, but that's not a rule which players are bound by imo.

http://eqlive.station.sony.com/suppo...of_conduct.jsp

Number 12.

12. You will not exploit any bug in EverQuest and you will not communicate the existence of any such exploitable bug (bugs that grant the user unnatural or unintended benefits in game), either directly or through public posting, to any other user of EverQuest. You will promptly report any such bug via the in-game "/bug" command or via the eqtesting@soe.sony.com email address.

Seems FAIRLY freaking clear to me. (Note that you are responsible for KNOWING the rules. "Ignorance is no defence under the law.")

The definition of bug is fairly loose, but in the post Absor made a "reasonable man" definition. Any "reasonable" person can understand that while doing a stack of fish + a stack of batwings and selling the results for maybe a gold coin profit isn't unreasonable profit from "vendor sold" receipes doing a stack of something else with a profit of 9 to 81 PLAT a combine is probably an "exploitable bug" and not working as intended.

You can argue "what is the meaning of bug" or "how can I know what's intended" till you are blue (or purple for us blue elves) in the face. It's up to the cop, not the driver as to what "demonstration of speed" and "reckless driving" mean. The CSR will make a determination of if you abused an exploitable bug. There will be limited, if any, appeal. Tread carefully. AND READ THE RULES!! (Since every time you log in you say you agree to them, perhaps READING them is in your best interest.) If you think the rules aren't posted, you just haven't bothered to look. Bother. Be Aware. Beware. They didn't post the rules up on their website for giggles.