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**Noni DeeCups** · 12-17-2002, 06:15 PM

Second, those jerks tell me to set up a bazaar mule. Well I have to laugh at this. Why should I buy a new account or sacrifice my existing account, or buy a computer or EQW my existing computer? I'm not buying a second computer to protect the market value of rings. LMAO

And then you say:

I had a bazaar mule (who I put up at night and no one still buys) with stuff selling at "market value" that no one bought. Screw that. Spells in book

Huh?? Do you use a mule or not? Do you even understand what a mule is?

Most people that are told to "Set up a Bazaar Mule" are told that because they are spamming the zone like a moron rather than being in /trader mode.

**Verdandi** · 12-17-2002, 08:11 PM

There are some strong emotions here. That's fine. I have a feeling that this is going to generate many more strong emotions. That is also fine. But please remember to keep things calm and respectful so that we can leave the thread open and everyone can discuss. If you wish to be vehement then please stick to exploding about the behavior that bothers you rather than the human beings behind the behavior.

**Wyrdlan** · 12-18-2002, 08:42 AM

If anyone feels this way on Rodcet Nife I am more than happy to be the middle man.

How I long to be used...

**Cigarskunk** · 12-19-2002, 07:53 AM

Every time I auction them some jerk (a different one each time) sends me a tell raging about me destroying the market. I must sell the rings at 30-40k!

First off, when ever I get those tells I ask the person to buy my rings at 20k and feel free to resell them at whatever price they wish. I'm offering that person the chance to do no work, no farming - and just resell these rings at a profit. They can have free cash. My guildmates and I are more then willing to supply someone who wants to sell those for more. But if course no one wants to do that. Only {complain}.

Perhaps said "jerk" doesn't have an unlimited supply of plat to keep you from flooding the market?

You said it yourself - you're dumping 3-5 rings a day - I don't think these poor players have 60-100K a day just to keep you from fragging the market. Additionally, since you made it perfectly clear that you and your guild are going to keep flooding the market at that price, it's not as if these folks can realistically buy you out and then resell and recoup thier expenses.

There are two basic mentalities to selling -

1) I can make lot's of this item so I'm going to make the most money by selling it for way less than everyone else thus making up for my lower price with more sales.

2) I'm going to stick to the market price - I won't be able to get money as quickly as I'd get it by simply flooding the market, but I'll make the market last and earn more plat in the long run.

You've gone with option #1 because you've got the ability to do so - you aren't even pretending that you're selling at a lower price because you feel that people are "being cheated" at the current prices or that you "want to make this item affordable to everyone" - you're very honest in that you want to make alot of plat fast for you and you aren't concerned with the ability or inability of others to compete - thank you for being honest atleast.

The "jerks" that are giving you grief for shredding the market for this item obviously subscribe to option #2 either because they've got the patience and forsite to do so, or because they're small timers who had hoped that selling thier one item would give them the plat they needed to do something productive for themselves and are now upset that you've taken away thier shot at the brass ring.

EQ is a closed environment - zero sum gain is real here.

**Taku645** · 12-19-2002, 09:54 AM

What is going to happen when they realize you aren't going to change your price and aren't going to run out of stock? In order to unload their stock most likely they will match or beat your price. Even if they just match your price, you'll stop selling your stock as quickly. Your stock will start backing up eventually. Do you plan to drop your price in order to move your stock at that point? If you keep your price where it is after they match you will sell slowly until someone comes along with your mindset and slashes the prices. It might go quickly, it might go slowly, either way it is a downward spiral until the market crashes.

**Glatius2** · 12-19-2002, 10:30 AM

If you keep your price where it is after they match you will sell slowly until someone comes along with your mindset and slashes the prices. It might go quickly, it might go slowly, either way it is a downward spiral until the market crashes.

This is about the point we're at on Tarew Marr with regards to acrylia plate. There are a number of us who market it regularly at about the same price, so no one sells a lot of it. All its going to take is one person to start regularly trying to undercut the rest of us for there to be a dominoe effect downward spiral of the market when we all try keep a share of the sales (we've already driven one or two out of the market by spontaneously dropping our prices, but someone will come along with more stubborness than common sense I imagine).

To the original poster, congratulations on your sales. I imagine that you'll make a handsome profit for a while. And then the market will be totally trashed and people will be selling these things for a mere pittance. But what do you care, you'll have made yours, right?

**kiztent** · 12-19-2002, 10:40 AM

Without defending Furioso here, I'd just like to point out that the people that set the current market price aren't infallable either. Tradeskillers, especially, are notorious for refusing to budge from prices that are based on their perception of their effort, not the utility of what they create to a seller.

Without knowing the market in that item on that server, I'll not comment further.

**Angelsyn** · 12-19-2002, 11:19 PM

Originally posted by kiztent

Without defending Furioso here, I'd just like to point out that the people that set the current market price aren't infallable either. Tradeskillers, especially, are notorious for refusing to budge from prices that are based on their perception of their effort, not the utility of what they create to a seller.

Without knowing the market in that item on that server, I'll not comment further.

The people who "set the current market price" do so by picking out a price for an item and seeing how fast it moves. They also (generally) compare the item to other items of similar utility (Acrylia BPs vs. Barbed Ringmail, for example) to help determine the pricing.

If an item sells very fast at a certain price, you begin raising it slightly until you're satisfied with your sales level. If an item sits in inventory for a long time, you begin lowering the price slightly... and checking for competition.

Some of us who "set the current market price" are Accountants and Economists.

**Kalavas** · 12-20-2002, 02:18 AM

Re: Why I sell low... and the jerks who cry about it

Good on you, Furioso.

And the rest of you, so you approve of price floors as a producer, what about as a consumer?

**Glatius2** · 12-20-2002, 08:44 AM

And the rest of you, so you approve of price floors as a producer, what about as a consumer?

Oh please. Do you know what has been happening with the prices of windstones and blocks of acrylia recently? Windstones have gone from 200pp each to many people trying to get close to 400pp each. Blocks of acrylia have gone from 100pp each to 150-200pp each. And the price of acrylia plate? Stayed exactly the same. I can't raise my prices and expect to still sell my product because there are too many competing droppable items. Yet the people providing the components are constantly edging up the prices.

Would I like them lower? Certainly. Can I begrudge them their opportunity to make some plat? Not really, except where it interfers with my opportunity to do the same. There will come a point, not too long from now, where I'll just stop buying the components because it costs me more money to produce the item than I can make back by selling it.

**kiztent** · 12-20-2002, 09:15 AM

Originally posted by Angelsyn

Originally posted by kiztent

Without defending Furioso here, I'd just like to point out that the people that set the current market price aren't infallable either. Tradeskillers, especially, are notorious for refusing to budge from prices that are based on their perception of their effort, not the utility of what they create to a seller.

Without knowing the market in that item on that server, I'll not comment further.

The people who "set the current market price" do so by picking out a price for an item and seeing how fast it moves. They also (generally) compare the item to other items of similar utility (Acrylia BPs vs. Barbed Ringmail, for example) to help determine the pricing.

Funny, all the smithing posts I see discuss price per sheet.

**furioso** · 12-22-2002, 04:43 AM

lol

What makes someone else the "expert" to guage the price of an item? Why is my 20kp value wrong, and someone elses' 30-40kp value right? Is it becuase they set the prices first? Or becuse they sell less? What is it?

How did we get the parts to make 3 rings a day? Mostly we went to the bazaar and bought liquids for 9-11k and talons for 500-1k, (even bought vials of distilled mana for 300-450... and I have an enchanter). Then we went to PoT and vender mined bars of valorium for 83p and raw diamonds for 210p.

10kp + 750p + 400p + 83p + 210p = 11.4kp

Oh my! Uber guild farming right there! Facter in the failure rate at 252 jewelery (with no JC AA) and the price per ring averages 14.3kp.

Granted one of us might win a roll on a rare metallic liquid drop, saving 9-11kp, and with three of us we would usually get a few rings worth of valorium and talons a day if we were lucky. So maybe the average price per ring was 10k.

Now how hard is it to make these rings? Lets see: exp in a zone and have lucky dice, shop the bazaar, mine the merchants... yes, I see how all that work is worth a 30kp mark-up. Don't you?

Or maybe its the JC skill? Hmm, that skill was flodded long ago when Kunark was released. So can't be there.

Now I must laugh at us tradeskillers. When BD were 2kp we cried it was too high. When our wares fall in price we cry its too low! Maybe its just best to ignore all the price discussions becuase this porage will always be too hot or too cold.

My opinion as to how the 30-40kp price came about: the buyers didn't understand how easy it is to make these rings. Shop the bazaar. Mine the merchants. Grandmaster JC just like most of your servers' enchanters, or pay a GM to combine for you.

P.S. Many strangers have told me they would like a ring but can not afford to buy it at 20kp. So I have told each and every one of them what the parts are, where to loot, shop and mine for them, and if they bring me all the parts I will do combines for free as long as they understand I can fail and I am not in a group/raid. I've made at least 12 rings for total strangers that way.

I must be greedy. Or at least as greedy as those who wish to charge a 30k mark up for someone elses lack of tradeskill knowledge.

**furioso** · 12-22-2002, 05:05 AM

Originally posted by Noni DeeCups

Second, those jerks tell me to set up a bazaar mule. Well I have to laugh at this. Why should I buy a new account or sacrifice my existing account, or buy a computer or EQW my existing computer? I'm not buying a second computer to protect the market value of rings. LMAO

And then you say:

I had a bazaar mule (who I put up at night and no one still buys) with stuff selling at "market value" that no one bought. Screw that. Spells in book

Huh?? Do you use a mule or not? Do you even understand what a mule is?

To make it clear, I am told to sell my rings at 30-40k durring prime time while I play my bard. All I need to do that is a second account and second computer or EQW.

Our rings sell durring pime time at 20k when lots of people are in and out of the bazaar. Our rings have never sold late at night at 20k when most of the server is asleep. A ring will sit on the mule night after night. Durring prime time I can sell a ring within an hour.

I have one computer. It is futile to EQW a bard in a group or raid. (Try it.) I play durring prime time.

Therefore: if I play durring prime time my rings will not sell.

What are my choises?
-I can get another computer and account to sell high at prime time while I raid. (no)
-I can sit in the bazaar and sell high durring prime time while my guild raids. (no)
-I can lower my price below 20k so the rings will sell off my night mule. (lol)
-I can sell low durring prime time and raid with my guild. (yes)
-I can let someone else sell my rings high at prime time while I raid. (yes, but no one wants to)

So what is your 'have your cake and eat it too' solutuion? I can't find one.

**MasterKrym** · 12-22-2002, 10:59 AM

Some thoughts on pricing.

When the PoTC quest came out their was only one tailor on our server who could make them reliably. I could make them at 5% success and made a few just to try and skill up. I posted my price at 2000pp and got a tell from that tailor that he was selling at 5000pp and it would be good if we didnt undercut each other. I saw the logic and upped my price. I quit making them after trying 150 odd attempts for no skillup and only 4 successes. The price stayed steady at 5k up to about a month ago.

Recently having got my skill to where I succeed about 1 in 5 I started making them again. I saw the curent price was around 4-5k. Having 8 in stock I posted them at 4k and sold a few. Another tailor had started making them in batches of around 10 and we started our own little price war. In under 2 weeks the price has dropped to 2k. It seems that there was only 2 other people on the server making these up til now and the additional 2 tailors has pretty much killed the market. The silly thing is neither of us seems to be selling much and we could easily set our price back up 4k and still be selling the same amount. I tried raising my price but the other guy doesnt seem to follow suit.

My problem is that while 2k is a fair price it will not stop there - in fact since both of us seem to have enough plat and are only interested in skilling up I expect the price will eventually be less than the cost of ingredients. My pain is that now I want to fail on the combine. A failure costs about 60pp and a lot of time. On the other hand a success is around 800pp cost and results in an unsellable item. There goes the geerlok anyway.

The only way you can undercut the market and not destroy it is if you are the only player making the item who is willing to undercut. Sooner or later someone else starts a price war with you and everyone gets burnts. great for the consumer I guess.

Another thing I note is that people with more than one tradeskill are more willing to undercut. They are focused on skillups and can always make money in some other skill.

All markets eventually die unless the item is the best in the game. Therefor nly the early bird is going to make a profit and I think with all the encouragement the EQ designers have thrown to players to develop tradeskills all the markets are nearing an end. It will soon be only the uber guildies who can collect the 4th tier ingredients who will make money.

Time for me to start skilling up guild membership.

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Why I sell low... and the jerks who cry about it

Why I sell low... and the jerks who cry about it

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