New vendor buy back values. Prepare to leek plat from every orfice.

[Neckwringer]

Did some pinemyr pasta's tonight and a bunch of sealed poision vials. Didn't get but a few gold for my 40 pinemyr pasta. Oh well big deal. Did 90 sealed poison vials. Took the time to fire them and guess what they sell for 4 silver each now.

Bye bye 1750 clubs. Bye Bye making money farming items on trade skills products. Bye Bye being a legitimate trade skiller. Level up camp everything sell it and burn the plat. I'm thinking this change affected alot of stuff.

Can't WAIT to see what they want to give for a 105pp plat ribbon after foraging your butt off for 5 hours and plunking down 2100pp for a stack to have it be for absolutely nothing.

[Lilosh]

http://mboards.eqtraders.com/upload/...threadid=11865


because clearly, farming certian research components and running them past 150 research was clearly too easy of a way to make a few plat.

*sigh*

There's going to be a rant very very soon about the path they've chosen for the game. I just have to figure out how to not get banned.



For many reasons a very very unhappy customer,
-Lilosh

[Lothay]

This belongs in the PSR.

[Iannyen]

Did some pinemyr pasta's tonight and a bunch of sealed poision vials. Didn't get but a few gold for my 40 pinemyr pasta.

So what. Worth more to eat yourself. You do eat food you know.

Did 90 sealed poison vials. Took the time to fire them and guess what they sell for 4 silver each now.

Get a trader satchel, sell em in the bazaar.

Tradeskills arent' about making a thousand combines in an hour to get a few points so you can make the uber high end stuff all of a sudden. Well, at least its not for me. The NPC's in this game aren't there as a dumping ground for your trash. The economy may be screwed by mudflation, but complaining that a very trivial combine that used to net 200% proffit being changed so that the recipe would be used to get actual tailoring skillups as opposed to just making 5pp a pop seems like too **** much whining ot me. Want to use research components, click a hundred times, and make proffit? Then make 100 Celestial Essences for 350pp and sell em for 1000 to a player, and support what little player to player economy is left.

[kiztent]

Huzzah, huzzah.

If being a legitimate tradeskiller means hitting combine and selling to a merchant, I say, death to the tradeskillers. Eat the stuff yourself, sell it in the bazaar. If it doesn't make money, DON'T MAKE IT.

Does legitimate tradeskiller mean having all 250s on you character? I say NO. Does it mean you do it for money? I say NO. I say it means someone who tradeskills BECAUSE THEY LOVE TO BY GOD.

Huzzah Sony, Huzzah.

[Sanna]

My ever-cynical BF made a point a loooong time ago, before I even went to Germany...

It went something along the lines of this:

"They want you to sit in front of your computer as long as you can. They're a capitalist business; in a sense I'd be very afraid if they DIDN'T want a profit out of this. But the longer it takes you to do something, the better for them. The longer you'll stick around, the more money they'll eventually make. If they change things so that something that used to take you one month now takes two, then they've just doubled their money. Rather efficient business model, that."


My only guess is that they have something similar in mind... the longer it takes you to earn plat, the more 'precious' it will be... they may be trying to curb plat-sales online by making plat harder to aquire...


In a sense, Tradeskill Rule Number One is "Never do it to MAKE plat; do it because you like to hit combine." But even so, something good needs to come from a high tradeskill skill, and yes, I can see how this is, if nothing else, injurous to our dignity and pride.


Someone on my guild's board said it very well.... "It's not that they do everything wrong; often they do many things right (/autoinventory, shared bank/plat, just to name a small pair). But when they do something wrong, they just do it so very very wrong."


In the end, who learned better than me last Wednesday that we are all only human, and sometimes we humans fudge up very badly. At least my fudgings aren't really premeditated....

-- Sanna
two steps from giving up on EQ.... and wasn't I supposed to stop posting and do homework anyway? Bad Sanna.

[Lilosh]

Originally posted by Sanna

-- Sanna
two steps from giving up on EQ....

I'm with you on this.

I don't know if EQ is in my future.

*shrug*

-Lilosh

[Maevenniia]

/comfort

Guys, SOE isn't doing this to nerf or punish tradeskillers, really.

But any combines that are relatively simple to macro and make what a macro-er may consider to be an 'acceptable' profit (in terms of mass-production) HAD to be targetted by SOE, eventually.

There's too much platinum being 'created' (by selling to NPCs) vy the mass-producing macro-bots.

If the sellback price has been too drastically reduced below cost, then start a /feedback campaign, NOT to demand that the profits be restored, but to at least request that the decrease be less drastic, because this method of reducing plat in the world, while meant to stop the people who are macroing to make millions of plat to sell for RL cash, specifically negatively impacts tradeskillers.

Unfortunately, when SOE brought their foot down to stomp on the macro-ers, they unintentionally squished tradeskillers. Send a RATIONAL and CIVIL email to them at their feedback email, let them know how you feel.

[Lilosh]

Originally posted by Maevenniia
/comfort

Guys, SOE isn't doing this to nerf or punish tradeskillers, really.

But any combines that are relatively simple to macro and make what a macro-er may consider to be an 'acceptable' profit (in terms of mass-production) HAD to be targetted by SOE, eventually.

There's too much platinum being 'created' (by selling to NPCs) vy the mass-producing macro-bots.

If the sellback price has been too drastically reduced below cost, then start a /feedback campaign, NOT to demand that the profits be restored, but to at least request that the decrease be less drastic, because this method of reducing plat in the world, while meant to stop the people who are macroing to make millions of plat to sell for RL cash, specifically negatively impacts tradeskillers.

Unfortunately, when SOE brought their foot down to stomp on the macro-ers, they unintentionally squished tradeskillers. Send a RATIONAL and CIVIL email to them at their feedback email, let them know how you feel.

I fail to see how turning mob-dropped components into swatches, using a high level of skill available to a few classes in the game for a few plat in profit was macroable.

:-(

Also, they nerfed cultural needles recently to sell back for zero. Regular embroidery needles, too.


-Lilosh

[Moraganth]

The NPC's in this game aren't there as a dumping ground for your trash.

a little off topic maybe, but.... yeh they are.. if they weren't, they wouldn't be buying anything coming off a dead body.

[Maevenniia]

Originally posted by Lilosh
I fail to see how turning mob-dropped components into swatches, using a high level of skill available to a few classes in the game for a few plat in profit was macroable.

:-(

Also, they nerfed cultural needles recently to sell back for zero. Regular embroidery needles, too.


-Lilosh

Lilosh,

I can think of one way that the spell components one would be macro-able: by vendor-mining and filling up all bags in bank and inventory with the cheap research components, then parking the macro-bot in front of a vendor that sells parchments and quills, and voila. Heck, the macro programs are supposedly sophisticated enought to make the 'bot get up, run to the bank, switch out empty packs for ones full of components, and run back and start all over again. Thus, a macro-er would only need to attend to their bot to refill on components (once a day I suppose.)

Combines where everything is vendor sold (like mature cheese was, or like Jewellery, or silvered picks) are even easier.

I'm genuinely surprised at the programs' sophistication, but I guess I shouldn't be, wherever there is 'easy money', someone will invent something to take advantage of it. And this was definitely easy, REAL LIFE, money.

I know this sucks for the genuine tradeskillers, and I'm sorry

[Lilosh]

Originally posted by Maevenniia
Lilosh,

I can think of one way that the spell components one would be macro-able: by vendor-mining and filling up all bags in bank and inventory with the cheap research components, then parking the macro-bot in front of a vendor that sells parchments and quills, and voila.

But the fact remains, unless they have Vendor-Mining bots, then this fix doesn't really address a "problem".

If I go out, and vendor mine 3 stacks of XYZ, then I've done my work, and am able to reap the profit. In the end of X amount of time, I should have Y amount of plat.

Now, are macroers wrong for setting their computer to do those clicks for them? You'd better believe it.

But they went out, all the same, and farmed what was needed to earn that profit. They just violated a few fundamental rules to save a bit of time liquidating the items they earned.

I stand by my original statement that reducing sell prices was NOT the answer.



-Lilosh

[Sanna]

holy crap. seems to me that if a program is advanced enough to do all that (combine, dump on trader, go to bank, change empty boxes for full ones), you've built yourself a mini AI and deserve to be hired by a company somewhere to put that skill to use.

programs can do that? And I mean that as an honest question... a 'mere' computer is capable of doing that? Doesn't seem to me that it needs to be THAT much more complex before someone can program a program to just play the freaking game... everything from killing mobs to going to the bazaar and buying better gear...


Alright, maybe a small amount of the above was slightly sarcastic. But most of it wasn't. If someone can build a 'macro' to do all of Mavienniia said, how much longer before things get 'really bad'?



And on a slight turn on the theme....

I agree with the idea that if I as a player can spend my time vendormining and/or hunting the mobs that actually drop the components needed to make swatches, then I as a player ought to be sufficiently rewarded with what in the long run is a relatively small amount of plat.

It seems to me that the 'profit' gained by being able to macro swatchmaking is relatively small compared to the 'true players' that are making an honest copper. Same goes for cultural needles. If someone is 'so desparate' for that 9p, let em have it. After all, it's not 'free', it takes skill to make that swatch or that needle.

I guess in the long run, a very coarse and simplified opinion is, 'SOE's getting their money, just let us get ours.'

So... anyone know where they've hidden their feedback email address? It's next to impossible to find the thing I'm looking for on the EQ site ^_^.


-- Sanna
Yes, SOE wants money. They're a capitalistic corporation in America; I think I'd be MORE afraid of them if they claimed (or if it were true that) they DIDN'T want money. At least when I say that they DO want money, I know it's true. Heck, I want money. ^_^ But oh well, we don't always get what we want..... /shrug.

[Itzena]

Originally posted by Sanna
programs can do that? And I mean that as an honest question... a 'mere' computer is capable of doing that? Doesn't seem to me that it needs to be THAT much more complex before someone can program a program to just play the freaking game... everything from killing mobs to going to the bazaar and buying better gear...

Like this?

See why macroing needs to be guarded against now?

[Cigarskunk]

I'm not so much upset at the lost in income that these nerfs/fixes have caused as I am at the greif it's caused folks in the area of skilling up thier tradeskills.

Take a look at how badly fletchers were screwed thanks to the macrophiles cranking out plat - the ability to skill up fletching without too much plat loss (definately a fix as much as I hate to admit it) was removed plus they screwed the ability to get skill ups (a definate nerf).

What this ultimately boils down to is Sony being too lazy to stop/punish the folks that are using macro programs to exploit various aspects of the game - it's far easier to punish everyone then to actually stop or track down the offenders - this is everyone in the class getting detention just because one or two yahoos were chatting during morning anouncements all over again.