Not again.....

[Aerinha]

I have to vent somewhere or I will explode. Even if all I do is write it all out and then end up not posting it. If I do post it, it is likely to be long and rambling.
I belong to a small family guild. We have trouble recruiting enough to cover the people that leave, and we have trouble, sometimes, fielding groups for certain things. Some of us have had epics in progress for ages, waiting for the right things to happen and enough friends online to accomplish the hard parts(I have Sky and Hate left on my ranger's epic...and have been at that point for 6 months, I think).
Everytime we get close to critical mass(population wise, that is enough friends online at the SAME time) for the harder hits, someone or several someones leave.
This hasn't happened once or twice, this is every time. I have been here before and the scenery is depressingly familiar. I am at the point of wondering why I am bothering to stay, except I already know. It's a family guild, and I can't let go. Every time someone leaves it feels like a part of my heart is torn out. I play because of the people I meet in game, and though the people that leave the guild always say they will keep in touch(if they didn't storm out due to personality issues, that is, but we haven't had that many of those, really) the reality is that they will eventually move on and most don't even stop by in channel and say hello more than once a month.
One of our high end clerics left today, and another is thinking of it. This is a small guild(obviously becoming smaller) and I feel like I am watching it die.
I know it is just a game. I don't need to hear it. Over the couple years that I have played this game I have gotten my money's worth in entertainment. I just have invested SO much of myself in this guild, I can't let go, and I am at a loss as to what to do next. I am not the guildleader, though I am an officer. I asked for and got advice from a guildleader I respect on how to fix the guild's problems in the past, and although I have tried to follow those suggestions, I could not implement the suggestions all by myself. Many people seem happy just coasting, but the guild will eventually dry up and blow away if there isn't more energy and creativity and events of some sort.
I don't mean to sound like I am doing it all myself. Obviously I am not, but I am not the only person tired and burnt out of leading things. There are only a few of us that do try to schedule things, and a couple events with sparse turnout and cancellations in a row tend to sap the enthusiasm.
A friend of mine suggested that I just take a break for a while and play an alt that is less well known and not guilded. That may be what I will choose to do for a while. Though it FEELS like I would be abandoning my friends, it may be what I have to do to enjoy the game for a while. 5 AM my time is probably not the best time to decide what I will do...or to post long rambling posts either.

[Nhin Impious]

I may not have a lot to share that is practical or helpful, but I did want to say that I understand where you're coming from. Due to a horrendous work schedule that is also at an odd time of day, I find myself missing quite a few opportunities to make and keep friends in-game. I'm currently in a family guild with a lot of military folks, so at least my "odd shift" problem is solved there.

One thing I would point out is this. You say that there are only a few people who are participating, turning out for events, and trying to organize things. So at the least you have a "core group" of people who ARE interested in participating in things, and some folks who are not so interested. What kind of events are you all holding? Raids, "go to this zone and kill things for loot/drops," guild picnics, cross-continent scavenger hunts, newbie roundups (go to a zone, give out buffs, cheap armor, food, containers, advice, help) or what? Would some of the current non-participants participate if the events were different?

Also, I know that in "family guilds" some folks may not have a huge time committment to be in-game. However, some of the folks may have an option of keeping up via an email list, guild message boards, or EQIM; if you think that is an option you could start a guild chat channel so that people could participate from EQIM in the guild life. Many times keeping the communication lines open will keep folks aware and excited about guild events and increase participation.

Another idea-- it looks like you may be having problems with just a few people getting everyone to participate in events (coordinating times, planning, etc.). What about dividing up the guild mentally into levels or time zones or classes and designing events specifically for, say, the mid-30's INT caster trio who all work the midshift? If you pick something to appeal to a handful of people and encourage others to participate, then move on to another handful, you might increase turnout for those "custom" events and that would whet their appetite for other guild events, too.

*yawn* It's early, or late, or something, but I hope that made sense, and I definitely hope it helps, even if you read through it and say "Nah...we'll just do this instead."

Nhinx "Ever been guilded with a spoon?" Aphsion

[Katalaeia]

I used to be in the same situation. We had a couple folks whose presence made or broke our events. After watching the guild nearly die and being one of the people to rebuild it several times already, I said I can't do this again and I quit. I had already disbanded my main a few months prior but left my Cleric there because I wanted to help out. It worked for a while but all the 60+ started trickling away and each time it would reopen old wounds (the person leaving was inevitably coined greedy or whatnot, since they only cared for themselves, of course). I think my Cleric was the 2nd last 60+ to quit, and she left because it was painfully obvious that any reconstruction would take a good deal of time, and would likely fall to her, again. With a level 65 and a level 62 I wanted more than to rebuild a guild of 40s/50s, which is why I finally left.

Then I saw a post on a board I visit telling a couple weeks later about the guild being disbanded...even though I was no longer a physical member, it hurt. I spent 2 years of my life with those folks. A few have joined the guild I am in now, and a few have joined her ally, so a handful of us are together again.

I am not a guild jumper. I've only worn 2 tags in almost 3 years of play, and only changed it when I was forced to by the path of events.

My advice is to do what feels right to you. It may not be an easy path to see, and if a change is in order it definitely won't be easy to do, but it's better for you in the long run.

[kiztent]

The problem with family guilds is that everyone moves at different speeds, and those that move more quickly tend to outgrow the guild and move on, leaving the chaff behind (either because of time or desire to move up).

If you try to actually organize anything, you will become de facto leader and lose all your fun time listening to people whine about how they want uber item X (generally epics) and need you to research it, lead the raids, get the necessary people together, and they'll show up late, expect to be called to the site to get their phat lewtz.

If you want to accomplish anything, you need to move on. If you really care more about the people, there's no need to move on.

Your call.

I know that my current guild was 4 people for a while (1 quit EQ, 1 left the guild friday). Well, our GL has friends, we got someone on board who made a spam recruiting hotkey and used it (who has since moved on), we bulked up and field ~20-30 during prime time. We get a fair amount of turn over, but the core (which grows) is a bunch of sarcastic people in their upper 50s to 60s (EQ levels) who are generally in their mid 20s and older (at 36 I'm not the oldest regular) and for whatever reason don't want to raid full time. We also have ninja alts, people who use us for levelling, people who dropped out of full time raiding and various other people.

It's amusing seeing 6 people LFG in guildchat and no one stepping up and making a group and taking it somewhere, but people really want leadership. Provide it and you will go places (either with your guild or you'll be recruited out to lead someone else).

[Ladnia]

I was in the same spot you're in for a long time. I was in a family guild that I loved, the people were outstanding, and they genuinely were friends.

However... I would watch time and time again when people would level up and want to see the bigger content and move on because of it. There would always be the "it's a game, people need to play how they want and it's ok" comments in guild chat, but the reality was that these people were now outcasts because they left to do what they wanted to do with their time.

I then got to that point myself. I had been 52 forever, was sick of pickup groups, and couldn't even get a group to go kill the easy mobs for my epic. So, I took it upon myself, and looked carefully at what I wanted in the game. What I wanted was no longer possible for me within the guild I was in, so I left, and joined a guild that still has that family feel, but is ready and willing to do the big stuff. I still keep in contact with my old guild, and I have now the best of both worlds.

I honestly think it was the best EQ choice I've ever made. In the month that I've been with this new guild, I've gotten to 61, have a great start on my epic, and have had more fun than ever before.

A lot of people have had similar situations happen, and how you handle it is completely up to you, but definitely look carefully at what you want in the game. If your current guild can be the ones to be there when you do what you want, then stay. If they cannot (or will not) do what you are looking for, then leaving might be the answer.

[Lothay]

I'm the guild leader of a "Family" guild.

It's small. The roster lists 93 members, but most of those are alts or second accounts. A number of them are people who have kept accounts active but haven't been heard from in a year. So, don't let the numbers fool you. We're small.

We've gone through the whole "people grow up with us and move on" thing a lot. People who cut their EQ-teeth in my guild have gone on to form at least 4 other guilds on the server, one of which was (before its implosion) a top-tier raiding guild.

Those who are left are there for camaraderie, not power. They're there for friendship, not loot. The solid core of 4 people is together a lot. We can't always group, and we can't always play at the same time, but the friendships last.

All I can suggest to you is that you evaluate what you want from your time in EQ and your Guild. Once you know what you want, you'll know where to go/what to do about the frustration you feel now.

Good luck.

[Hibashira]

I remember those days. First off, you need to get your guild's purpose in order. Don't just say "our goal is to have fun" or "its a family guild, we just want to have fun as a family". Everyone says that, its meaningless. Fun is different for different people. Some likes loots and gears, some like to see higher and higher level contents, some like to do tradeskills, some like to raid raid raid raid. Some fun things (like loots) are high maintenance while others (like tradeskills) requires no maintenance.

The people you lost are the ones that are probably more focused on loots and gears and progression to high level content. If you guild is not supporting that or driving towards that, you will keep losing the same type of people. Unfortunately, those are also the folks and are more progressive in leveling so you would see periodic exodus of you "main" force.

The key is to really sit down and define what your guild is about, where you plan to go in-game, how you are going to get there, and by when. When you have that, present that to your members. Some will stay, some will leave. But from that point on, only accept those that understand the purpose, goals, and future progression of your guild.

In the end, its all about management. You cannot just gather a group of people together, slap a guild tag on them and expect them to pour their hearts and souls into the guild. Like all social relationships, its give and take. You need to create goals and expectations, and follow through with them. At the same time, you need to obtain commitment from members. That gives your applicants and members a roadmap. They'll either help you along or following another path at different speed and ferocity.

Then again, you are not the guild leader. Everything above is pointless if your guild leader is unwilling to change.

[Chenier]

I come from a very hardened and calloused viewpoint of guilds, but merely because of my experience...

Reading your story makes me want to scream "GET OUT!"

If friends are friends only because you wear the same tag, then they are not friends. Having sorrow because something you invested in is falling apart hurts, but if it inevitable, get out and start healing yourself.

Life has enough pain - you don't need more of it in your chosen fun hobby.

[Thicket Tundrabog]

I have some words of encouragement for the original poster. The guild I'm in has been around right from the beginning of EQ. It is a family guild, although quite a large one. We currently list 350 members. Although there are many alts in this number, we also cull membership if a person has not been on-line in the last six months.

There have been many high-level people leave the guild because they 'outgrew' it. Some found other guilds that suited them better. Most found that they really 'outgrew' EQ and needed to leave.

Many remaining members were very discouraged. It seemed that whenever we banded together to get someone their epic, they would leave.

Despite this troubling exodus, we persevered. It took us years, but it's now paying off. We currently have 11 bonafide level 65 players and are getting more all the time. We have about 20 others that are level 60 - 64. Instead of being a guild that high level people leave, we are becoming a guild that high level people go to. It took a long time to get there.

We kept a core of guildies that were not interested in leaving. These guildies tended to have a positive outlook, were never inclined to be discouraged, and knew that other guilds would have their own problems.

We have never lost our 'family' atmosphere. I find that players join our guild from other guilds because they are leaving conflict, not because other guilds are too low a level.

I've also found that people want to reach 65 to join in the fun of high-level encounters.

With high level players, we are able to help other guildies. We gather research components for spell combines. We turn in parchments and put spells in the guild bank. Guildies get these spells for free. They have to be able to scribe the spells when they receive them. High end gear that drops is awarded to players based on need. If possible, gear is handed down to other guildies.

It sounds pretty good right now, and it is. I can very much identify with the first poster. Been there, done that, survived, now happy.

Thicket

[Theodain]

Guilds

I know exactly how you feel, I just left a long time guild as well, because I simply cannot try and rebuild another guild, with most high-level people leaving. I did that once before and another time 3 small guilds who were on the merge of disappearing merged but now even that has reached an end. I just could not take it anymore, now I'm on probation to join another guild, tho at least wtill it just does not feel like home

[Hilbur]

Had this happen to me 3 times so far. Each time was painful. And it never got less painful. In fact it got more painful each time. I don't have any way to comfort you other then say that pain shared is pain halfed.

First guild had a lot getting into the 55th range and it looked like we could start doing interesting stuff(Kael raids, deep Sebalis, Howling Stones, etc). Then over a period of 4 or 5 weeks most of the 50+ crowd moved to different guilds. Sigh.

Second guild I joined was a good bit more powerful. Arena raids no problem. HoT was fun and challenging. Vindi could be a tough fight but was doable. Started working our way through WToV and looking hard at NToV. Gearing up, doing some of the weaker Luclin mobs, building levels (before PoP obviously). Then the Guild leader left and took most of the best in the guild with him to for a new power guild. Sigh. Limped along for a bit then we disbanded.

Third guild was doing Vindi and Tormax with little problem. Raided HoT very little. PoP had come out and people where leveling up to 65th. Then we hit AoW. And won. First time. No one with NToV or Sleepers gear. Started doing NToV and went in deep a few times. Never completely cleared or did Vualk ring. Doing the mid lvl Luclin mobs whenever we could get them. Started working on ST and Emperor keys. Doing lesser PoP mobs (Shade, PoS named and lords, BoT Tower bosses, Paffa). Our biggest problem was numblers. Could rarely get more then 45 or so online at any one time. Heck getting 45 online at one time was rare. Started recruiting more to bulk up. Then it happened. Some conflicts between people. Some classes feeling we where not going after mobs that dropped loot for their classes. Bad stuff going on in guildchat. Guildleader had a RL problem that needed seeing to that greatly reduced his attendance unfortunately. Then it was like people stopped logging on to avoid all the drama that had been going on. Raids dropped from nearly daily to twice a week. Members left for different reasons. When the dust settled we realized we had gone from an up and coming guild to one reduced to doing Vindi again. Alot of ideas where kicked around but in the end it was decided to disband the guild and seek our fortunes elsewhere.

At present unguilded but I have applied to a stable guild. It is not a full time raiding guild. Much as I would like to (and in fact was asked to join one or two) I don't really have the time to play in full time raid guild (work 5 nights out of 8 12 hour shifts). I am hoping things go good and I hope to see if I have a place in this guild. But frankly at this point I am no longer sure if I care. Hard to give your heart over 3 times and have had it smashed each time.