Faction (warning, a long one)

[Inyidd]

To quote (loosely, since I can't remember exactly) an interesting mathemetician:

"...there are people in the world who do not love their fellow human beings, and I *hate* people like that!"

--Inyidd

[Lothay]

That would have been Mr. Tom Lehere?

~Lothay
o/~ "One man deserves the credit. One man deserves the blame. And...."

[Inyidd]

"...Nikolai Ivanovich Lobachevsky is his name."

Yes, Tom Lehrer would be the man.

--Inyidd

[Fallwell]

When I graduated from high school, there were exactly 2 asians and 3 african americans in my class of around 250. I probably spent around 45 minutes throughout the first half of my life with people of differing ethnicities (I'm white.)

I would have to say honestly that my mind was pretty closed to other races and alternative lifestyles back then. Not vehemently opposed or anything, just oblivious. It was much easier to stereotype then to delve into what turned out to be a facinating new world. When I look back now (13 years removed) I realize what I missed out on, and how differently I look upon the world now.

Now I'm married to an amazing Cambodian woman, and have a darling little girl. Her family and culture is captivating and I have learned from them the truest meaning of selfless and kind behavior. My life has became everything I always dreamed.

People are simply a product of their environment, and behave accordingly. I sometimes feel the stares from people when the three of us walk about, but I don't feel uncomfortable. I feel sorry for anyone who is not open to the extraordinary people and cultures around us, like I was long ago.

~Fall

[Morani]

Fallwell, I'll say the same thing I say to other people in mixed ethnicity relationships: you are an ambassador to the future. Every time you go somewhere as a couple, just by being together, you have a chance at opening someone's mind. The more times a person sees a "mixed couple" the better it is. Familiarity breeds complacency and that's a good thing when battling prejudism. Every child that sees your family as a happy family will be shown, by your example, the good parts. The children that play with yours will grow up thinking that such things are normal and not that they are wrong. You have the chance to change the perspective of hundreds of people just by doing what you normally do. For every person that looks at you funny, there are dozens who have been changed in a very slight and subtle way by increasing the familiarity of the image. And not every person who looks at you funny is doing so because they think it's bad/wrong. As you learned growing up, some things are just a surprise because you never expected it.


On a more humorous angle, I now have National Brotherhood Week going through my head (thank you Inyidd :P ). I Think one of my favorite quotes from him though is: "For there is surely nothing more beautiful in this world than the sight of a lone man facing, single-handedly, a half a ton of angry pot roast!" Perhaps even MORE fun taken out of context.

[Malathos]

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness"
Mark Twain

[Inyidd]

Morani: It's surprising the things you learn from satire. My dad had to explain to me what this line meant. "And the witnesses awarded the driver both ears and the tail." Oy!

--Inyidd

[Eowenna Celerdain]

I had two grandmas who spent part of their "growing up" years in the south-eastern United States. Specifically, Georgia and Florida.

One had worked as a clerk in a store in her later teens. She said her dad had bad luck in picking hired hands ... all 3 of the "colored boys" he hired happened to be lazy good-for-nothings. She often expressed the hope that they were not good examples of their race. She certainly knew enough lazy white guys to make our race look bad, too. (My father, sadly, was one such example. ops: )

The other grandma was far less open-minded. She used the impolite word to designate african-americans, and without saying it bluntly ... her discussions on the matter were along the lines that they were barely human, more nearly animals. ops: That Grandpa had played with the native american kids when he was small; he'd just smirk at her when she talked that way, shrugging and shaking his head.

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Interesting that a cousin on the prejudiced side of the family later married an african-american ... though it lasted less than 5 years, they had 2 or 3 kids. I was never close with that cousin, we've lost touch over the years ... so I don't know which parent has custody.

The more open-minded side of the family has produced people that dated other racial and cultural folks, but ended up marrying in the same culture. As nearly as I can tell, there was no negative prejudice going on ... just an awareness that - for them - it worked better as a lifelong "teamwork" partnership to have more of the same ideas. Most have very close, long-term friends of other races and cultures.

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My own ancestry is mixed: weighing in slightly heavier on "caucasian" ... but including a healthy dose of semitic and even a little native american into the blend. (Most mixing is on the "open minded" side; though dark-haired they have pale skin.) My siblings and I came out looking "white" ... but we all tend to tan very darkly, and quickly, if we spend much time in the sun through the summer.

One brother, who especially likes being outdoors in the summer, has often been mistaken for hispanic. He thinks it's funny when he gets dropped "like a hot potato" when the folks who came up and chatted with him discover he's "white."

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Anybody remember the old Classic Star Trek? Those Vulcans had a symbol, IDIC ... "Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combination." The idea was to recognize that IDIC is normal, tolerate whatever you don't agree with, and respect the right of others to be different.

The individual was not called upon to *conform* to any of the differences, only to respect them. This opened up endless opportunities for exploration, discussion, debate, etc ... to investigate without judgement, but not to change themselves unless it was the "logical" thing to do.

I think that was well put, and that it's a shame that this idea wasn't carried through into the spin-offs more strongly.

[Aoladari Raveynfyre]

One brother, who especially likes being outdoors in the summer, has often been mistaken for hispanic. He thinks it's funny when he gets dropped "like a hot potato" when the folks who came up and chatted with him discover he's "white."

I'm like this. When I used to tan (close call with skin cancer so I avoid the sun like the plague now) I would have Hispanic women walk up to me and start speaking spanish ALL the time. I felt so bad telling them, I'm sorry I don't speak Spanish. :?

[Turlie Silverwine]

As is my brother. They always speak spanish to him, and mistake me for Phillipino or Indian. One Indian couple really didn't believe me when I tried to tell them I'm not Indian and that I don't speak their language. They actually got mad and thought I was lying. /boggle

[Morani]

Inyidd, I don't know HOW many times I heard the song before I caught that line myself. I was in Chicago a couple of summers ago and got a change to see the show "Tomfoolery". If you know the songs, you know the show but it was still fun.

A comedian I was listening to a while back as talking about how to solve racism; everyone should be required to only have children by someone from a different ethnicity. After a few generations, everyone on will look Philippine.

[fielan]

Coming from the Deep South (southern Louisiana), I'm afraid that I didn't escape totally without some predjudices.

They are, however, limited only to dating within my own ethnicity. Some of the finest people I've ever met are from backgrounds and cultures than mine, and I am happy to call them friends.

And in all honesty, I've never found myself in a situation where it was a problem. My current partner (who will eventually become my husband, whether he knows it or not. *wink*) is also caucasian. I don't know if my views would change if I ever found myself attracted to someone outside of my race; and I'd like to think I'd be open to it if it happened, but... I just don't see the opportunity arising.

For the record, I do have mild twinges of the ugly head of predjudice pop up when I see interracial couples, but... you know... as long as they are happy, who am I to judge? Love is a beautiful thing, no matter what color the skin it's wrapped in.

[Slippyblade]

Heh. My dad gets mistaken for being mexican all the time. He has black hair and dark skin. Doesn't help that we live in Arizona. He is a landscape foreman and as such, works with mostly mexicans since that is the main labor pool here. It is amazingly funny when a new guy comes on the job site and walks up to my dad to report, babbles in spanish at what he assumes is a mexican boss, and is responded to in flat english. My dad is about as caucasian as they come. just had an interesting gene cocktail in there somewhere.

Anyways, I think part of America's problem is that we are darn near Hypersensative to ethnic background. I mean, come on... The term African-American is a prime example... Now EVERYONE is demanding to be called [ethnic]-American... Excuse me, where were you born? America? Right - then you are American. Period.

Also, I understand having pride in your culture, but there are limits. I LOVE these people that wear tribal style clothes to work and then get pissed when they are told it is inapropriate. I'm scottish. Should I be allowed to wear a kilt to work? No way.

Oh well, I'm gonna get flamed so I might as well say this, WHY DO WE CELEBRATE Cinco de Mayo?????????????? That makes less than zero sense.

[Aandaie]

From what you said this is VERY obvious that it was based upon race. They'd ask a white couple what the woman made instantly, as well as where she worked. They'd do it because they do it every day, even if they were slightly sexist. So this was about as race as it comes, they frankly did everything except actually refuse to sell a car to you.

Frankly I would right a VERY descriptive, non embellished letter to the main saturn car site. I'd be very descriptive about what city that dealership is in, the address and I'd make sure to go back and actually get the NAMES of those people.

I'd then make a copy and send it to both the main saturn site AND that dealership. I'd make sure that the copy I sent to that dealership had a CC on it so they KNEW you also sent it to the main Saturn.

Then I'd also send a copy to anyone else who might be interested, the NAACP etc. I'd also send a copy to your state Senator.

This is pretty serious and though I'm very white, from a white family, I really would not be amused if I saw this happening. I guess you are more used to it since you live it I'd be pretty pissed off and severely chastise the people calling them racist. What they did pretty much borders on being illegal, there continue to be "sting" operations here and there due to what happens when a multiracial couple goes to a reality office to buy a house. In the case of the house they usually try to find some excuse to not even sell it to them.

Its 2003, jeepers. I mean its not like your parents were a gay couple or something!(Sorry, I just had to make that little joke ) I thought we were beyond this kind of thing.

I Love who I love, it makes no difference to me what skin tone they happen to have. Though I've never had a chance to actually get to know or date an opposite sex person of an obviously different race, I would not even think about doing so twice. To me its no different from someone as pale and melanin challenged as I am. I'd never dream that you could still be discriminated against for it in this day and age. Outrageous!

[BlackMeph]

Can't we all just get along?

Y'know, this is an interesting topic for me since, through no fault of my parents, I was brought up cross-culturally. I'm a black man (BTW, I find the term African-American personally offensive. After all, when's the last time you heard about that steroid-using African-Canadian sprinter, Michael Johnson? ) who was raised in a white neighborhood (Tucson). Then, to top it off, I married a white woman who prefers black men. So, while our marriage is inter-racial, it isn't inter-cultural. I've had my incidents with prejudice, and with outright bias, and while it wasn't pleasant, I mostly wound up pitying the poor stupid fool.
Actually, I think I got more ribbing from my friends for sounding so "white," then I ever did from folks back in my mom's (Norfolk VA) or dad's (Jacksonville FL) homes. Maybe they just though I was trying to be a "smarty-pants" and weren't going to "give me the satisfaction" of knowing I sounded too "white." Or maybe, they had problems believing that there are black folks living in Arizona.
Anyway, what I've learned and how I feel, is that life's too short to try to go around trying to live folks lives for 'em. So, while I might run into the occasional biased person, I just figure it's my chance to show that there're all sorts of different people in the world, and that as long as they aren't actively working against me, I'll just move on.
Besides, all sorts of people have all sorts of prejudices. It isn't like they're all KKK members working to kill everyone that isn't a White Anglo-Saxon Protestant. They just believe that they have a limited amount of thinking they can get to, and they're not gonna burn it all up by expecting that the next dark-skinned person they run into might have ancestors from Yemen, and not Honduras. Hey, maybe they DO have to marshall those poor limited brain cells! :P