Need suggestions for material...

[Prachlyn]

RL crafting... (/hide)

You know those little tabletop fountains where the water trickles down a typically flat backwall and quietly splashes into the reservoir at the base?

I'm wanting to construct a custom one of those for a friend.

The problem I'm running into is selecting an appropriate material to make the fountain out of. The pump, tubing, etc is self-explanatory but materials to make the actual base from are proving more difficult.

I don't have access to a kiln, so ceramics/pottery seem to be out of the question. I've seen air-dry and oven-bake clays, but don't feel that they would last long enough, nor be stable enough in great quantity.

I've pondered plaster (too brittle I think), cement (too rough), and, of all things, bondo (requires a supporting frame).

The size of my project (if it matters) is going to be about 12-16 inches tall, and probably 12 inches wide, 10 inches deep.

Any suggestions on a material that is sculptible/moldable like clay, but dries rock hard and is either non-porous, or capable of taking paint/glaze to waterproof it? Oh, and something not overly expensive. $50 is about my max for this project.

I'm going nutty.

[hyelaw]

Probably not what you want to hear, but I would use a metal base. Or you may be able to find a cheap ceramic bowl at a craft store to use. I have no clue about how to affix the other stuff though :/

[Itek]

yeah, I was gonna suggest a "terra cotta" pot/plant holder ... but most of them are round...

Oh ... you could try making a "quik-crete" base ... you'd have to make a mold for it... (most of the fine grain crete's are pretty smooth if you don't put giant rocks in... and you can sand/fill them to be even smoother if you need to)

1) make a flat solid slab base, and around the edges push in multiple cheap bolts (you'll see why in a sec)

2) make the sides by putting frame around the outside and inside, then fill with "quik-crete" which will end up covering the other half of the bolts... (now the two "halves" won't come apart easy)

3) on the inside use a silicone caulk of some kind to "water-proof" the gap

As far as I know you can then paint the outside, inside, etc and putty the gap on the outside ...

If you make the sides thin enough it shouldn't weigh too terribly much or be much more fragile than a cheap ceramic. (If you wanted to strengthen it you could put wire mesh in... wouldn't keep it from cracking but would make it fairly easy to fix any cracks with the aforemention caulk's and putty's)

Best of luck

[Lothay]

Have you considered Poly-Vinyl Resin?

You need to make a mold, so you would need to make a model first. Regular plasticine would work for that. Or plaster.

The final resin product is nigh-indestructible, sandable, and takes any kind of paint you could ever wish to use. And if you don't destroy your mold, you can make more copies.

The stuff is toxic to work, but non-toxic once finished. No baking is needed, just mix the checmicals and pour.

[Prachlyn]

I considered Quikrete but thought it might still be porous or rough once completely dry.

Poly vinyl resin sounds like a viable option, though do you know of a good source for it? I saw some resin at Michael's, not sure if it was polyvinyl, but it was like 15 bucks for about 20 ounces. That would quickly throw me over-budget if I went with Michael's.

Sounds like I might be making a wooden mold to cast plaster into, then clean up the plaster cast and make a more detailed permanent mold out of something, then perhaps explore this resin idea if it's relatively cheap.

I like the idea of being able to make copies once the mold is made. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Silound]

I did something similar, but used flat pebbles stacked like a brick wall to makre it. Looked very nice. I did some work once with acrylic plate, get some cooking oil to a real hot temp, then put the piece of acrylic plate into the oil till it softens and is pliable, then use a blower to cool it off (cools fast once it starts to re-set itself). I made a dome shape by heating it and molding it over a metal mixing bowl, constantly re-heating it as I shaped it to keep it from breaking or overstressing.

[Lothay]

option, though do you know of a good source for it? I saw some resin at Michael's, not sure if it was polyvinyl, but it was like 15 bucks for about 20 ounces. That would quickly throw me over-budget if I went with Michael's.

Sounds like I might be making a wooden mold to cast plaster into, then clean up the plaster cast and make a more detailed permanent mold out of something, then perhaps explore this resin idea if it's relatively cheap.

I like the idea of being able to make copies once the mold is made. Thanks for the suggestion.

The PVR material can be found at many hobby shops or industrial supplies. It's also sold online by numerous companies.

[Froni Thunderpaws]

It really all depends on what you want it to look like in the end. You can sculpt quikcrete and portland cement and if you want it to be a little porous look up Hypertufa - it is a mix of cement. sand, peat moss, and other stuff you can make that a lot of gardeners use to sculpt with but it will have a rough texture and might be prone to algae. There are lots of sealants you can use for porous materials if the materials appeal to you.

I have made them the ceramic route (but have a kiln and wheel in the garage), have wanted to make one from stained glass for a while (although I think I am going to fuse it instead of soldering it together). The person who mentioned stacking stones has a great idea and if you can get to rock show or store you can by cabbing slabs and just sort of stack them (you can drill through them if very careful) - the cabbing slabs of stuff like agate look incredible when wet and don't need polishing.

Lots of things you can do with plastics - the resin is expensive but can do neat effects if you are careful and take your time and you can imbed things into and color the resin pretty easily. Be careful softening the acrylics (plexiglas, lucite...) because if they burn they can release some nasty fumes but that is another great technique. You can also fuse plexiglas together if you are careful with nail polish remover (or various ketones - acetine, MEK, ... if you can get them.)

All this blathering comes down to one thing - get an idea of what you want to fountain to look like first and then figure out the materials portion. At least personally, if I am trying to make something specific I have a lot better luck with it coming out nice.

GOOD LUCK!!!

[Silound]

MEK, /shudder Great stuff, lung scars from inhaling fumes from somehting it reated with.

[paalrh]

Well a friend of mine used shale to make it. If you use Brazilian shale you can get it in a veriety of colours and shapes. Some industrial glue and you can make a pool-like thing to glue onto a plate of shale and then mount the pump with a drill to pump water from the basin to the top of the shale and then poor down into the basin again.

shale=Slate/schist

[Draggar]

Have you considered plastic? It's watertight and easy to work with, then you can just cover it up with what you'd want, even if it's painted over plaster?

[Itek]

MEK, /shudder Great stuff, lung scars from inhaling fumes from somehting it reated with.

Worked at a place for 2 months that used a TON (no kidding 4-5 barrels a day) of Methyl-Ethyl-Keytone ... Bright LORD that stuff stinks when it's hot. And it's an indescribeable stench... burnt popcorn with undertones of fecal matter is as close as I can come...

Can't remember all of the junk from Organic Chem Lab One, but I seem to remember that good perfumes use Esters and cheap perfumes use Keytones. (or vice versa?) The cheap one reacts with the water in sweat, breaks down into smaller chemicals that generally have OFFENSIVE odors.

(Other O-Chem trivia... if you accidentally put a tiny amount of Halogen-ated waste into the Non-Halogen-ated waste bucket you suddenly have a great deal of, much more expensive to dispose, Halogen-ated waste. A fact that I tried to explain to my lab partners. Unsuccessfully. The lab assistant was NOT impressed when she was informed.)

[clinopyx]

Hiya Prach.
You might try going to a local building supply or landscaping store that stocks natural stone and checking it out. If you find a piece that you like, they can probably cut it to the size you want.

[Froni Thunderpaws]

LOL, OK forget I suggested MEK. I hated doing the unit ops lab with it in school for the same reasons described and would only use it in a lab hood at work.

Some esters do have fragrance/flavoring use - ethyl acetate is an apple scent and I think isoamyl acetate is that awful fake banana scent and flavor. More of the fragrances are actually terpenes and their derivatives (limonene is the major oil in orange and lemon oil, geraniol is in roses, I think eugenol is cloves, ...) Perfumes based on natural sources usually have many components because the plants have a huge mix of compounds in the scent versus synthetics which are kind of flat. They can have the same principle chemicals in them but you can tell the difference. Also synthetics often have some side products that can change the scent from the real thing. (I am a flavoring chemist wannabe whereas I somehow turned into a materials chemical engineer.) Anyhow cheap perfumes and flavors use synthetics to both reduce cost and to have an easy way to achieve product consistency.

Anyhow back to the original thread - have you thought what you want the fountain to look like? And I hope you post a picture of the your project when you are done.