I'm too deep in geekdom...

[Nairn Niteraven]

I was always taught that 100% was all of anything. If you buy something for $.50 and sell it for $1.00 you didn't make 100% profit, you made 50%. The only way to make 100% profit is to get the item for nothing then sell it for whatever; any amount is 100% profit.

Here's the discussion I had with my wife in round numbers for ease of reference; she works in Insurance. She has a client paying, let's say, $100 for monthly coverage, then the premium goes up to $300. She says that's a 200% increase in premium, and I understand her reasoning, but what happened to 100% being all of anything.

So is my premise wrong that 100% is all of anything, is it just a mathematical absolute for theoretical calculations, or is percentage merely something based on the number 100?

I suspect it's just based on the number 100, but I'm an old guy. Old habits die hard

[Dunthor Warsmith]

hmm ... interesting perspective.

If you restrict "100%" to translate to "all of something", then how do you describe an increase relative to the initial state? Or maybe that's the point ... describing things relative to the final state (ala your $0.50 example) instead of relative to the initial state (ala your $100 example).

I seem to use a looser internal definition than you. For me, 100% is a "whole" of something, but you can increase it by units of a whole too. For example, if you have 1 truck, and you buy 2 more trucks, you now have 3 trucks. So that's 2 more whole trucks, or 200% more truck than you had to start with. To me, that doesn't violate the sense of 100% being an "entire" thing, but it may violate that for you. For me, its then just a matter of abstracting the "unit of truck" into whatever our base is, beit $100, x^3, 12m, f(r), or whatnot.

Mathematically, it seems (at least so far) to be a matter of perspective (measuring relative to initial state or to final state), but the "100%=all" makes me curious if that's not really the issue you're having.

[Nairn Niteraven]

"100%=all" makes me curious if that's not really the issue you're having.

Precisely. 100%, to me, implies that the initial state is known, and is zero (as in the 100% profit example) or the ultimate maximum is known, such as 250 in Tradeskills. Then your current skill is a percentage of that based on your current level, so an increase from 100 to 200 isn't a 100% increase, it's an increase from 40% to 80%, based on 250. That fits into the 100%=all definition.

It's just a matter of semantics. It just depends on whether or not you and your audience understand the same meaning. It was just a fun discussion and I love those.

[Turlo Lomon]

I'm going to have to side with Dunthor on this one.

Your interpretation of 100% is equivalent to one pie. You have a part of the pie (25% = 1 of my slices), or you have the entire pie. However, what if you gained a second pie? If you suddenly state that 100% includes both pies, then any previous calculations are invalidated. That 25% is now 12.5%. You would have to constantly redo all of your figures with each recalculation.

In addition to causing an error on a spreadsheet, it does contradict the mathematics that percentages are based on.

I hate to say it, but you may need to reevalutate your interpretation of what 100%. If you ever get involved in spreadsheet setups, or computer programming, you will come across errors, and a lot of upset executives.

For example:

2002 Sales: 1000 units
2003 Sales: 4000 units

Differential: 300% increase

However, by your interpretation, the differential would be a 75% increase. That is not accurate, as 1000 plus a 75% increase is actually 1750.

Hope that helps to clarify. I also hope I didn't ruffle any feathers.

[Renjah]

If you have 100 widjets and someone gives you 100 widjets you had a 100% increase.

You started with X and now have 2X. SO if you had 100% you now have 200% thus the 100% increase.

Lets say you paid $5 for 1 widjet and sell it for $10. The profit margin is 50%. If you got it for free and sold it for ANY amount you made 100% profit.

HOWEVER I see it slightly differently. Lets say I get all the drops from PoEarth to make a livestone chain bp. I COULD have sold the ingrediants for say 60kpp total. So thus I NEVER see selling the BP I made as 100% profit. I see the revenue lost (especially if I fail the combine) as a 60kpp loss since I COULD have sold the items. Nothing in EQ is a "free combine" you could always have sold the ingrediants for cash and forgone the combine

[Turlo Lomon]

Reread your reply. More math to add.

Using a confined number set such as tradeskills (cap of 250), I'll review the numbers you game.

100 skill = 40% of total
200 skill = 80% of total

Raising skills from 100 to 200 is a 100% increase in skill, and a 40% increase toward maximum productivity. Two different percentages in the same sentance. The important part is making sure your syntax is correctly used.

Your wife's example was a good one. What is the upper limit of insurance premiums? There isn't one. So, the proper context was used by her for that.

Percentages are not based on 100 as you stated. It is more accurate to describe percentages as a function. It is not a number per say. It is mathematical shorthand to perform multiplication for specific uses.

And yes, I have a degree in this stuff. I probably have OCD, too. My friends all think I do.

[Teedyo]

Renjah, you sound like a politician. ;-)

Politician says, "We're going to cut spending by %33."

Crowd cheers

What politician is really saying is; we spent $2Billion this year and planned to spend $2.9Billion next year: now we're only going to spend $2.6Billion. So his 33% decrease is actually a 33% decrease of his increase with a net result of a 66% increase.

Crowd gets a clue...errr.... nope.

Could also compare your statement to my boss' pov when he's in one of his ..ummm.. 'moods'.

[splunge]

I like toast.

[Dhomal the Scavenger]

Hello-

Yes. Toast with sugar and cinnamon. Mmmmmm.

Dhomal the Scavenger

"Mayhaps I should start baking - so I can make myself some yummy treats!"

[Angelsyn]

Actually, I can see where he's coming from... as an Accountant, and talking profits.

Assume that I spend 5kpp each for 6 Pristine Tae Ew Scales. Then I spend 1k each on 3 Lizard Blood Tempers.

Now, I make some Tae Ew Plate Greaves. My cost was ~33kpp.

If I sell these Greaves for 66k, then my profit was ~33kpp. Thus, my profit was 50% of the total sale.

I did not earn 100% profit, when looked at from that angle... which is how many companies (like oil companies) do things to claim less profits than they earn. Then they turn around and show their investors they did earn 100% (or whatever) profit by "doubling" the initial funds.

Going further, I could say that I earned no profit at all on those Tae Ew Plate Greaves... because it clearly cost me alot more than 33kpp just to get my skill up to the point where I could make them!

----------------------------------------

Of course, I don't see it that way.

I look at "supplies" in my bank (Folded Sheets of Velium, Elemental Tempers, etc.) as things that I have not turned into product yet. Everything I sell becomes profits used to buy things to make more stuff... or to buy things for my characters to use.

I've found that, in EQ, once you reach a plateu of skill/cash it's pointless to worry about profit anymore. It really does become easy to "make more stuff, sell it, buy supplies, then make even more stuff".

[Jarak_akn]

The problem that you are having is that you are not clear about what part is the "all of it" or 100%

I have 1 pie
I have 100% of that pie

Someone gives me a pie
I have 2 pies
I have 200% of the orriginal pie
My pieage has increased 100%

(The orriginal pie is now only 50% of my total pieage)

I have 2 pies
I have 100% of the pies

Someone takes a pie :-(
I have 1 pie
I have 50% of my orrignial 2 pies
My pieage has decreased by 50%

My 1 pie is 50% of my orrignial 2 pies.

Does that help ?

Jarak.

[Maevenniia]

Pi = 3.142857

[scarbrowed]

This is really a confusion between profits and return on investment.

As a company seling things, if I buy something for $50, and sell it for $100 that is a 50% profit margin. Because 50% of my revenue is profit.

On the other hand, if I buy a stock for $50 and sell it for $100, I made a 100% return on my investment. Because my $50 investment made me another $50.

My father is an accountant, so I hope I'm remembering this conversation correctly.

[Dunthor Warsmith]

Originally posted by scarbrowed
My father is an accountant, so I hope I'm remembering this conversation correctly.

I'm pretty sure both of those are right.

[Itzena]

Originally posted by Maevenniia
Pi = 3.142857

Pai = Cute girl with 3 eyes and funky supernatural powers voiced by Megumi Hayashibara.