(Yet another quiz) Grammar police, this one's for you!

[Dunthor Warsmith]

Originally posted by Ilona
From what I remember, on the "If I was/were ..." question:
If I was ...: it would be possible that I was (whatever)
If I were ...: it is highly improbably that I would be (whatever)

So both answers are grammatically correct, but the the one to use would depend on what you wanted to say

I believe that is correct. My issue is that "was" is becoming standard for both cases, the reasonably possible (future more vivid) and the highly improbable (future less vivid).

Though you could argue people are simply considering virtually everything likely to happen....

[Melinia]

hmmm...
I'm only a student...
maybe I should take it again.

[Cubwynn]

Originally posted by Ilona
Edit: the html looked terrible... but I was a Grammar God.

From what I remember, on the "If I was/were ..." question:
If I was ...: it would be possible that I was (whatever)
If I were ...: it is highly improbably that I would be (whatever)

So both answers are grammatically correct, but the the one to use would depend on what you wanted to say

If you are describing a situation which is not true, you must use the subjunctive were. For example:

"I wish I was King." -- is incorrect. Since I am not King, I must use the subjunctive were, ie., "I wish I were King."

[Stugein]

Only a student here. I thought I had done much better.

The only thing I don't like about that quiz is that it doesn't allow you to show the correct answers or the ones that you missed after you complete the test. I would've liked to know where I screwed up.

[splunge]

Originally posted by Cubwynn
"I wish I was King." -- is incorrect. Since I am not King, I must use the subjunctive were, ie., "I wish I were King." [/B]

I was always under the impression that if you removed parts of a sentence that were not part of the core, the core should still make sense.

I Wish I were king. ('I wish' can be removed)

I were king.

Doesnt make sense.

We were kings. (this makes sense, as were implies plural people)

"I wish I was king" sounds more correct to me then 'were'.

If i had been the prince of a country, and my families rule of the country were overthrown, then i could say 'I wish i was King'

But 'I wish I had been King' is even more correct.

"I like cheese."sounds the most correct tho.

[Dunthor Warsmith]

Originally posted by splunge
I was always under the impression that if you removed parts of a sentence that were not part of the core, the core should still make sense.

I Wish I were king. ('I wish' can be removed)

I were king.

Doesnt make sense.

I think part of the issue there is that they (pseudo) mean completely different things. "I wish I were king" is along the lines of "I want to become the king," whereas "I were/was king" is along the lines of "I am a former king."

As far as I know, the "remove the frills, and the core should make sense" rule is only valid when the "frills" are added on detail to the sentence. In this construction, they are not added details, they are fundamental to the grammatical construction - you can't have a future-less-vivid without the "main verb" and the form of "to be" - remove one or the other, and you've fundamentally altered the sentence.

The best analogy I can quickly think of is "I am going to the car." If you remove "going", the sentence "I am to the car" doesn't make much sense - that's the same idea (although different grammar - imperfect? been a while...) as removing "I wish" from the "I wish I were king" construction.

I think that's why most of your later analogies don't apply - they're using a different grammer, and therefore obey different rules.

[Serenya]

/edit deleted the html, but I'm a Grammar God. My English has always been quite good, but there have been holes in my 'formal' knowledge as opposed to knowing 'how it should sound', so there were a few questions I found rather tricky.

[Tinile]

Grammar Goddess ~

[Cubwynn]

Originally posted by Dunthor Warsmith
I think part of the issue there is that they (pseudo) mean completely different things. "I wish I were king" is along the lines of "I want to become the king," whereas "I were/was king" is along the lines of "I am a former king."

As far as I know, the "remove the frills, and the core should make sense" rule is only valid when the "frills" are added on detail to the sentence. In this construction, they are not added details, they are fundamental to the grammatical construction - you can't have a future-less-vivid without the "main verb" and the form of "to be" - remove one or the other, and you've fundamentally altered the sentence.

The best analogy I can quickly think of is "I am going to the car." If you remove "going", the sentence "I am to the car" doesn't make much sense - that's the same idea (although different grammar - imperfect? been a while...) as removing "I wish" from the "I wish I were king" construction.

I think that's why most of your later analogies don't apply - they're using a different grammer, and therefore obey different rules.

Dunthor is correct.
Splunge, you may be thinking about the grammar shortcut to determine which form of "him", "he", "who", "whom", "me", and "I"... in which case you can do what you had suggested.

Example: "The prize went to he and I." (incorrect)
Simplify, then break it down to each person and see if it makes sense:
"The prize went to he." (nope)
"The prize went to I." (nope)
"The prize went to him." (okay!)
"The prize went to me." (okay!)
So the correct sentence would be "The prize went to him and me."

As for who/whom: "who" would replace the word "he" and "whom" would replace "him", so "Whom did the prize go to? The prize went to him and me." is the correct usage.

Some people would probably chime in and say "wait a minute! You ended the sentence "Whom did the prize go to?" with a presposition! BAD! BAD! *spank* *spank*
Actually, my usage is correct. Many years back, Latin was all the rage at secondary schools and colleges, and one of the grammar rules for Latin is that you cannot end sentences with prepositions.
Misguided people have attempted to apply Latin rules to English grammar, but those rules simply do not apply. So, "Whom did the prize go to?" is correct grammar. But if it really bothers you, "To whom did the prize go?" also works, though it is awkward and unnecessarily unwieldy. Yes, Virginia, there is nothing wrong with ending sentences with a preposition in English.

*erases the chalkboard*

[Grimina]

Hmph, a grammar goddess. Who'd a'thunk it? I would say, the fact that I said to myself "oh what the heck" on at least three questions would PROVE I am, in fact, a dunce when it comes to grammar. Oh, I'll admit, I'll correct others when I get the chance. Or at least cringe when I hear something like "whom may I ask is calling" (that one REALLY sets my teeth to grinding). But I go more by what "sounds" right than by what follows the rules. I guess my gut instincts are better than I thought. *snicker*

Grimmy

[Kronepsis]

Wow! I'm an average speaker O_o

[Phabos]

Originally posted by Cubwynn

Some people would probably chime in and say "wait a minute! You ended the sentence "Whom did the prize go to?" with a presposition! BAD! BAD! *spank* *spank*...
Yes, Virginia, there is nothing wrong with ending sentences with a preposition in English.

Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put.
--Sir Winston Churchill



Phabos Aphsion
Drunken Paladin of Brell
Tarew Marr

[andyhre]

"I wish I had been King"
and
"I wish I were King"

are both grammatically correct.

"I wish I was King" is not.

[This ignores the fact that the last of those three is the most common and in some sense, how we speak is what grammar really is, not what we "ought" to say].

The first is a statement about a desire in the present that is not true: I currently want to be king, but I am not. The second is a statement about a current desire to have been something you were not in the past: I currently wish that in the past I had been king, but I was not.



Andy

p.s. I grew up in New England and "snuck" is not a grammar error - it's a regional dialectical form. Very different.

[Niellya]

You are a GRAMMAR GOD!

If your mission in life is not already to preserve the English tongue, it should be. Congratulations and thank you!

Though some of those might have different answers depending on the context.

[Dunthor Warsmith]

Originally posted by andyhre
"I wish I had been King"
and
"I wish I were King"
<snip>
The first is a statement about a desire in the present that is not true: I currently want to be king, but I am not. The second is a statement about a current desire to have been something you were not in the past: I currently wish that in the past I had been king, but I was not.

My understand is that its exactly the opposite of what you said - first is a desire for the past (I want to have already been a King), second is a desire for the present/future (I want to be the king now or soon, and going forward).