plea for EQ IDs

[Doremi]

If you're tracking the actual in-game item ID, as given by Lucy or Magelo, it'd be useful for those of us who submit updates if you displayed what you thought the ID was, not to mention whether it's known at all. This would also help us better check items whose names and stats change over time.

[Cubwynn]

I think that would cross the line between "fan" and "spoiler" site... listing game mechanics that we were never really meant to see.

[Ngreth Thergn]

well... think of it as "lucy" ID's (they just happen to use PART of the real ID's (which includes augment info I think))

We are looking into chat bots that help with recipes in game. For that, we need to match ID's for it to work well.

[Sanna]

I wouldn't say it's 'spoilers' at all... It's like the DDS for keeping track of books in a library. If everyone calls the same item by the same number, then we're all on the same page all the time. "Meant or not meant to see"... but is it harmful if we do? Harmful is speedhacks, harmful is that xp exploit in tactics six months ago, harmful is duping plat. It's not harmful to use the same indexing system on items.

And I'm doing my best to feed Tyking data, when I see him on and find something he doesn't have.

-- Sanna

[Doremi]

I view it more as a common point of reference for discussion, not a hack. Let's face it, the exploiters will exploit regardless of whether you make the IDs visible or not. On the other hand, it'd make the lives of Krazick, Tudani, et al. much easier if we all speak the same language ("When I mention that +15 ENDUR and Race: IKS was added to one of four items named 'Foo,' I'm talking about ID 12345." or "'Foo' with ID 12345 drops in Emerald Jungle, but 'Foo' with ID 12346 drops in Dreadlands."). The ID is about the only thing about the item that (probably!) won't change over time.

Also, when and where was it mentioned that the site wouldn't reveal game mechanics? I see threads for the skill-up formula as revealed by devs, discussion of the GoD yield increases (and subsequent problems), etc.

[Zaephod]

I'll toss in my little tidbit here Link stuff to Tyking!

Bored in an XP grind group? Link the drops to Tyking!
Bored on a Raid? Link the Drops to Tyking!
Bored grinding skillups? Link the items (including subcombines and stuff) to Tyking!

Link stuff to Tyking! Everybody's doing it! Give in to the urge to be like the rest of us compulsive linkers!! (how's that for peer presure? )

To have him add something to his DB all you have to do is type ";tell tunare.tyking [itemlink]"
where [itemlink] is the link to the item
If you use tell windows it gets easier just keep his little window up and link things in it
1, 2, 10 at a time... doesn't matter

[Sanna]

er... "site wouldn't reveal game mechanics...."

the skillup formula was released by the devs. at that point, the 'rules' on that changed, and became acceptable public knowledge. beforehand, when the players were calculating skillup stuff by hand, it was mere speculation, which can't really be discriminated against.

neither that nor discussion of Gates yield increase/decrease/bugs isn't the same thing as the kind of 'mechanics' that allow for hacks. go to rpgexpert.com and poke around, there's an article with a now-defunct piece of code for a macro about exploiting the JC sellback rates. /that/ is the kind of information that won't be found at eqtc.

eqids nor the stuff tossed around on the boards fall into the 'bad' category. Like Ngreth Sir (more or less) said, it's just a matter of time.

so, like Zaeph said... the best thing you can do right now is link everything you can get your hands on to him ^_^ pull stuff out of xymena and link it to him *whistles innocently*.
for that matter.... see if you can pull stuff out of him and link to xy... why not : P

-- Sanna

[Zaephod]

As a side note. Lucy has released an export from their DB of the ItemID, Name, Lucy Link. Might be a good way to do a direct import to get all of the EQ Item IDs in one move

[Sanna]

it makes me wonder if EQTC would (want to) revamp/reconstruct and assign the EQIDs instead of the numbers currently used.... and yes, it sounds like an unbelievable amount of work and i honestly wouldn't dream of suggesting such a nightmare if it weren't for the 'everyone on the same page' idea...

>__<

-- Sanna
Excellent at coming up with Misery-Causing Ideas

[Tudani]

It's a good idea Sanna, but I don't think it would work. To do that we'd have to have an EQ item ID for every item in our database, which we don't, and couldn't do without some sort of automatic updater like lucy uses (or only adding items that are also either in lucy or magelo). Either way, we'd not be able to accept submissions from people who aren't using some sort of updater unless the item already exists in lucy/magelo.

[Krazick]

Sanna,

On the surface the idea might sound "reasonable"... however it isn't really feasible. Partly due to what Tudani has stated. Also, the fact that as I get into updating the various guide and quest write-ups, I reference EQTC Item IDs/Recipe IDs. If these are all changed... I have to go back and re-edit those quests that use them.

If this was a money-making System for us (ie we required payment for use of the site) then there would be more justification for putting in that effort. But this is a volunteer run site. We don't get paid for this service except by the donations of those who feel the need to thank us.

[Sanna]

in my defense... "you don't have all EQIDs" /yet/. And... given the sheer mass of people who run lucy-update or magelo-update... I doubt there ARE there going to be items known to EQTC that are not known to L/M.


yeah, i know it's a stomach-wrenching idea, which is why i've waited so long to say it. and no, i didn't expect it to be taken up. And yes, changing /everything/ would be... worse than a pita. It's just waving a teeninsy little flag in my head that it's "going to have to" be done /some/day.

And "reasonable" wasn't the word I was thinking (or used) at all, Krazick ^_^. It's /not/ pretty. It's just, a little bit useful.

/shrug.

-- Sanna

[Doremi]

Actually, there are quite a few items known to EQTC that aren't listed in either Lucy or Magelo, particularly in the more obscure corners of blacksmithing (just look at Tudani's list in the Help Wanted forum). Whether this is because the people who make those items don't run the Lucy or Magelo updaters or because EQTC has an incorrect name listed, it'd be much easier to determine whether it's the latter if EQTC displayed the actual EQ item IDs. Hence my original plea.

N.B.: I am not advocating converting the DB to use the EQ item IDs for its entries, only to add them as a column containing extra info to the table(s) of items and the subsequently displayed page for the item. Continue to use EQTC-internal IDs for lookups.

[Tudani]

There are a *ton* of items that we have that neither lucy nor magelo have. Many of these are older items (such as the old cultural) that people really don't make anymore (and were only really made before lucy/magelo existed). Or obscure items (mainly from lower level zones) where many of the people hunting there don't run lucy/magelo (and may not know about those programs either). If you also take a look at our god smithing section, almost every item there that doesn't have stats currently from us, neither lucy nor magelo have stats. Also many of the items we do have stats for of that stuff, lucy and magelo don't have stats for either.

We have hundreds of items that aren't in lucy or magelo, many of which have existed in game for years. I don't think it's realistic at this point to expect lucy/magelo to ever get them listed (I at least would not think it wise to put money on it).

[Ngreth Thergn]

If we had to rely on getting real EQ item ID's for every item, the site would have much less info on it.

There will never be a time when

it's "going to have to" be done /some/day.

the system with the fake ID runs just fine.

The only thing I might want some day is a search for EQ item id