Expansion Requirements

[wingventure]

It would be a big project, but would it be possible to add what expansion(s) are necessary for the different recipes? It has taken quite a bit of detective work to figure out what is necessary for some recipes (like Cultural Needles requiring Legacy of Y.).

Unfortunately, as a Everquest Macintosh user, we're limited to Planes of Power and everything before that. I don't know if SOE will ever spend the money on developing LoY, LDoN, and now GoD for the Mac, but we're sure like it noted that a recipe is not available to us. Thank you.

[Dunthor Warsmith]

Hmm ... they have the recipes somewhat sorted on the base "Recipes" page, but nothing on the individual item/recipe pages.

I'm not sure how successful it would be (and it would certainly take some time), but you could try: Finding the recipes you're interested as normal. Then, check through the sub-sections for the expansions you don't have (LoY, LDoN, and GoD, right?) and see if those recipes appear in any of those places. If they don't, you're probably fine.

Or could look up the vendor-bought components you don't already know for each recipe, and make sure that they can all be found in zones you have. Won't work for mob-dropped nodrop items, but at least its something (and would've caught the ribbons).

[Ngreth Thergn]

the trade supply pages now have the expension listed on them... (have for about 2 weeks) that itself should help.

Due to the HUGE ammount of itteration it would need to do to make sure no part of a recipe comes from an expansion you do not have... I will not make anything that does that... It is too large of a hit on the server.

[wingventure]

Cultural Needles The Big Example

Cultural Needles are the big example. You can purchase all of the components in PoP or less, and then the combine fails. This would be a big problem, but it should have been done in the past, especially now with a number of new recipes coming out with GoD... :-(

How about just making sure that the *recipe itself* doesn't require a particular expansion.

[Ngreth Thergn]

This is a possibility... but would definitely take extra work, that is not needed right now with all the work for GoD (it would require a manual decision each recipe and there are over 7000 in our DB...)

Also... what is the criteria? and how will you guarantee to me that I will not then get complaints that the crietera is not right for the next person?

Is is expansion only if it requires a ND component only reachable by the expansion? Or only if it requires a tool only available in the expansion? or if ANY part even tradable is only available from an expansion?

What I *CAN* do, without tons of work... (but still some so it would not be instant) is display what sub category that we have set the item to. All that will do, though, is tell you that it came out in that expansion... it will NOT tell you if you can do it if you can acquire all the parts anyway. I.E. the new bolas. Every part of that recipe is tradeable... so theoretically (if you got someone else to get you the parts) you could make it... GoD or not. So you CAN make it... and succeed in making it... if you can somehow get the parts... this would not tell you that... it would only tell you that the recipe came about in GoD.

[wingventure]

Cultural Needles The Big Example

Cultural Needles are the big example. You can assemble all of the components in PoP or less, and then the combine fails. This would be a big project, but it should have been done when the first expansion came out, especially now with a number of new recipes coming out with GoD... :-(

I'm not looking when part of a recipe is not available - I'm looking for at least when the recipe *itself* won't work unless you have a particular expansion. This probably should have been part of the big database rewrite, but it got missed. Allakhazam does this to some extent - should we all be using them instead? Just how much work is it to add a database field of "requires" and give it a default of "unknown"? For every database that I know (and I know (or have forgotten) quite a few), adding a field isn't a huge deal. At least you could change "unknown" to GoD for all of those new recipes...

And just to make it clear: LoY, LDoN, and GoD do not *exist* for Al'Kabor. I can't purchase it if I gave SOE a thousand dollars (well, maybe they'll consider putting a development team together then...). Several people are thinking that the cultural needles are a bug fix away... :-(

And, no, cultural needles are not listed as LoY recipes. I still don't think your users would typically scan things in such an odd way - they would just use the "find" button...

I don't know why the current respondents are focusing on "components", when I'm talking about "recipes"... If a recipe requires a particular expansion, then maybe its components do too.

[wingventure]

Originally posted by Ngreth Thergn
This is a possibility... but would definitely take extra work, that is not needed right now with all the work for GoD (it would require a manual decision each recipe and there are over 7000 in our DB...)

Also... what is the criteria? and how will you guarantee to me that I will not then get complaints that the crietera is not right for the next person?

Is is expansion only if it requires a ND component only reachable by the expansion? Or only if it requires a tool only available in the expansion? or if ANY part even tradable is only available from an expansion?

What I *CAN* do, without tons of work... (but still some so it would not be instant) is display what sub category that we have set the item to. All that will do, though, is tell you that it came out in that expansion... it will NOT tell you if you can do it if you can acquire all the parts anyway. I.E. the new bolas. Every part of that recipe is tradeable... so theoretically (if you got someone else to get you the parts) you could make it... GoD or not. So you CAN make it... and succeed in making it... if you can somehow get the parts... this would not tell you that... it would only tell you that the recipe came about in GoD.

Sorry for the funny dual postings - internet connection was terrible with the first posting.

I don't know about the subcomponents, but you could start with if the recipe itself doesn't work without a particular expansion, say so. Cultural needles aren't even listed with the cultural recipes, and all of their components are buildable in pre-LoY - just the combine will fail without LoY. Perhaps this is just the simple case...

[Dunthor Warsmith]

Originally posted by wingventure
[B]Cultural needles aren't even listed with the cultural recipes

I can't speak to the rest, as I do own PoP and LoY on my account, but by the format that appears to be used by EQTraders, the "cultural" needles do not belong in the Cultural Recipes sections. The Cutural Recipes are the combines that people of only XX race can perform. The "cultural" needle combines can be made by anyone of any race - the product is only useful to some races, but the combine can be done by anyone, and thus it is not "cultural" by the system EQTC seems to use.

Allakhazam does this to some extent - should we all be using them instead?

The Antonican, Cabilisan, Clockwork, Erud, Feir'dal, and Tier'Dal Allakhazam pages have no mention that I can find that LoY, or any other expansion, is required to do the combine. The items which they link to have the "Ykesha Required? Yes". I've never found that field meaningful other than for historical sake (especially on dropped droppable items), but if it seems to also work for you for these tradeskill combines, then, well, glad it works.

[Niami DenMother]

Cultural needles aren't even listed with the cultural recipes, and all of their components are buildable in pre-LoY - just the combine will fail without LoY

They're NOT cultural recipes, by our categorization, correct. But can someone verify the second half of this comment? Do the needles truly DNC if you don't have LoY? If this is true, then we will, at least, want to put something in the notes field about it, but I thought the only LoY required parts were the no-drop ribbons, which become tradeable once dyed.

[Ngreth Thergn]

Re: Cultural Needles The Big Example

Originally posted by wingventure
Allakhazam does this to some extent - should we all be using them instead?

You know this disturbs me.

I will not be GIVEN an ultimatum... when I VOLUNTEER my time to work on the site.

Allakhazam is a great site, and if you prefer to go pay them more power to you WE give what we have for free... it is not perfect, but little in life is. I do not fault allakhazam's for charging one bit, I am just pointing the difference.

Heck... why am I even talking to you... if you would prefer to go use them instead. I have nothing further to say to you. If Niami wants a change I will make it, that is the end of this conversation.

[wingventure]

Originally posted by Niami DenMother
They're NOT cultural recipes, by our categorization, correct. But can someone verify the second half of this comment? Do the needles truly DNC if you don't have LoY? If this is true, then we will, at least, want to put something in the notes field about it, but I thought the only LoY required parts were the no-drop ribbons, which become tradeable once dyed.

At least on the Al'Kabor server, the cultural needles don't work. They are noted on Allakhazam as needing LoY to work. All of the component for needles are obtainable, but the combine fails.

[Tudani]

However, on any NORMAL server (aka the 30+ servers that have all expansions avaliable to them) you can do the cultural needles combine even if you do not own the loy expansion. Yes, you're on a server with a different ruleset. Yes, many people from the special servers have various problems with the format that everybody else uses without problems. I suggest you take this up with SOE and ask them very nicely to add in the recipes from expansions that don't exist on your server; though I doubt they will, as there is absolutely no reason to make cultural needles on your server other than skilling up. The people here don't get paid to do what they do. In fact, they lose money on it. I'm sorry to sound so rude but your insulting tone to and about this website, the database, and the people who run it has offended me. You'd find you'd get much further if you asked very politely about which recipes are and are not avaliable to you on your server.

[wingventure]

Re: Re: Cultural Needles The Big Example

Originally posted by Ngreth Thergn
You know this disturbs me.

I will not be GIVEN an ultimatum... when I VOLUNTEER my time to work on the site.

Allakhazam is a great site, and if you prefer to go pay them more power to you WE give what we have for free... it is not perfect, but little in life is. I do not fault allakhazam's for charging one bit, I am just pointing the difference.

Heck... why am I even talking to you... if you would prefer to go use them instead. I have nothing further to say to you. If Niami wants a change I will make it, that is the end of this conversation.

Sorry for the bad reaction, but you seem to be giving a lot of gruff here over something I think is both simple to do and something I would have done (at least with the database update). Allakhazam sucks, although they have their useful information - that why I use *both* (although I pay neither - I probably should pay you guys though... :-) ).

Unfortunately, for us Mac folks, it's always difficult to get our needs remembered. I have some wonderful trivials worked out that you don't have, although they may not apply to the more current servers.

I do think you may need to go outside, take a break, and come back refreshed. I do understand that GoD has created a lot of work for you and this is just one more thing...

[wingventure]

Originally posted by Tudani
However, on any NORMAL server (aka the 30+ servers that have all expansions avaliable to them) you can do the cultural needles combine even if you do not own the loy expansion. Yes, you're on a server with a different ruleset. Yes, many people from the special servers have various problems with the format that everybody else uses without problems. I suggest you take this up with SOE and ask them very nicely to add in the recipes from expansions that don't exist on your server; though I doubt they will, as there is absolutely no reason to make cultural needles on your server other than skilling up. The people here don't get paid to do what they do. In fact, they lose money on it. I'm sorry to sound so rude but your insulting tone to and about this website, the database, and the people who run it has offended me. You'd find you'd get much further if you asked very politely about which recipes are and are not avaliable to you on your server.

I frankly don't believe you, but I'll check with my guild friends and others to verify what you've said. You do seem to be what us Mac folk have feared - a jealous PC user. This may be the first you are hearing of this problem, but this is widely known on the Al'Kabor server. Excuse me, but you have the insulting tone (and I didn't start it - the staffer did with his "that would be far too much work" for something I consider simple attitude).

[Niami DenMother]

No, what you want is NOT simple to do. Go back. READ what Ngreth said about editing 7000+ recipes BY HAND. Stop with the condescending tone. This is not SoE. You are not the customer. You are a guest and you would do very well to remember that before you even think of posting here again.

Then realize that it wasn't "a staffer" who said it, but my husband. As in, the other half of the owner and founder of this site. And your tone to him was totally, utterly unacceptable from a guest. Your tone to others since then has been unacceptable as well.

I've just self-edited this post to remove a long rant, but it boils down to this:

Too bad that you don't like it. Congratulations for stepping on all the wrong toes, ignoring the warnings that you'd done so, and continued with the toe-stepping.

Sorry. You don't get the last word here. I reserve that right.

Any pity I may have had for your plight has been removed by your increasingly condescending and snide tone.

You were told why your request wasn't a simple one, and then refused to let it drop, still maintaining that hand-editing 7000+ recipes would be "simple". Go make your own site. Then you'll have a RIGHT to complain.