Carbonite Plate/Vanguard

[Burt]

Heya folks.

So I'm well underway to level my armorer (28 at the moment) and I have a question for ya. How come there are no imbue recipes for carbonite plate? I have the ones for vanguard but none for the priest plate. Has it always been like this or is this something they botched in the Big Revamp?

[eepjr24]

They did not "botch" it, it is working as intended. Only one set of plate and chain (the 'generic' set) has an imbue for each tier. The class specific sets are more tailored to each class and do not have imbues.

- Dibbler

[Burt]

Originally Posted by eepjr24

They did not "botch" it, it is working as intended. Only one set of plate and chain (the 'generic' set) has an imbue for each tier. The class specific sets are more tailored to each class and do not have imbues.

- Dibbler

Aah, I see. Thank you for clearing that up.

[Troodon]

Ah, well... can still get imbues for their weapons, shields, and rings... just not their armor I guess. Or you could just have them wear the imbued vanguard in their chest and legs slots and plate for everything else, if really want the imbues. Would think the priests would have less need of those anyway though (though as a templar, wouldn't mind the lambent imbue if I get hit, lol).

[Troodon]

Near as I can figure, are 4 basic types of plate armor now:

vanguard (str, sta, agi)
imbued vanguard (str, sta, agi, lambent imbued for chest, sanguine imbued for legs)
plate (sta, wis, int)
devout (str, sta, int)

Anyone know what classes would want str, sta, int? Well SKs maybe...

Similar thing with chain... just called
chainmail (str, sta, agi)
imbued chainmail (str, sta, agi, imbue)
brigandine (sta, wis, int)
reverent (str, sta, int)

At higher levels they also gain health, power, and resists.

Each type also has slightly different graphics too, nice touch... was tired of too much armor/clothing looking the same, lol.

[Prrasha]

There's actually 3 base sets of plate and 4 of chain; you missed 'melodic' (agi, int, sta(?)).

And yes, the Devout set is for off-tank/DPS paladins and shadowknights... since I've got an armorer alt capable of making it, I'll probably have a full set of both Devout and Vanguard for my paladin. Though since I always hide my helmet, and boots don't show under vanguard legs, I might just have Devout pieces only for those two slots... even tanking/soloing more INT is good, and AGI doesn't affect plate tank avoidance that much. If you could imbue Devout armor, I'd only use that, but that heal proc is hard to give up. And I refuse to run around in mismatched "raider's motley" armor if I can help it.

[Troodon]

Originally Posted by Prrasha

There's actually 3 base sets of plate and 4 of chain; you missed 'melodic' (agi, int, sta(?)).

And yes, the Devout set is for off-tank/DPS paladins and shadowknights... since I've got an armorer alt capable of making it, I'll probably have a full set of both Devout and Vanguard for my paladin. Though since I always hide my helmet, and boots don't show under vanguard legs, I might just have Devout pieces only for those two slots... even tanking/soloing more INT is good, and AGI doesn't affect plate tank avoidance that much. If you could imbue Devout armor, I'd only use that, but that heal proc is hard to give up. And I refuse to run around in mismatched "raider's motley" armor if I can help it.

Yep, missed melodic, guess it doesn't exist until t4? Have no t3 recipes for it. Seems like it would be especially good for dirges and troubadours, whose power pool is based off of int and agi.

Not sure why a paladin would want devout though. What use do they have for int? Their power pool is based off of str and wis. Max damage of offensive spells is based off of int, but it seems that would be much less of a priority for a paladin, imo. I use achievement to put a few points into int to help dps a tad but that's not my main priority. If there was a set that provided str, sta, and wis, would love that as would help both my power pool and melee damage. As it is vanguard seems the best crafted set avaialable to a tank. I get wis from my jewelry and achievement (I chose the wis line to start off with anyway). I think devout would be great for a shadowknight but for a paladin int is hardly a primary stat. If anything I might get the boots and helmet in plate for the wis.

Personally for my templar would still love that lambent imbue on the chest piece for plate. If I do get hit, a shot of regen while the tank tries to get agro off me is greatly appreciated, lol. But I'm a real stickler for having a matched set of armor... hate having pieces that don't match, like them identical or at least fairly close.

[Prrasha]

Paladin INT spells (on my 57th level paladin, anyway) are the following:

(Spell/CA name, damage at 206 INT, recast time, DPS at 206 INT (based only on recast time))

Zealous Strike's DoT portion, 141-235 x 6 ticks, 60s, 19.0
Destroy Will's undead smite portion, 247-411, 30s, 11.0 (double vs undead)
Celestial Judgment, 237-395, 20s, 15.8
Refusal of Faith, 744-1240, 60s, 16.5
Consecrate PBAE DoT, 155-189 x 21 ticks, 300s, 12.0 AE
Decree encounter DoT, 301-502, 15s, 26.8 AE
Unflinching Conviction PBAE, 308-514, 30s, 13.7 AE
Righteous Crusade weapon proc, 8% 241-401, N/A, 8.6 (double vs undead)
Call to Honor groupwide weapon proc, 8% 117-196, N/A, 4.2 (double vs undead)
Gleaming Strike (from imbued cobalt flamberge), 5% 234-434, 5.6

Dropping myself 115 points to 91 INT, I lose 12% of that DPS across the board. A suit of Xegonite Devout has 112 points of INT on it, so about the same delta for a paladin 5 levels higher than me.

When trying for DPS, I use everything but Consecrate against solo mobs, so:
Int-based portion of DPS at 206 INT:

vs solo: 121.1 DPS (devout armor is worth 14.5 DPS of this)
vs solo undead: 144.9 DPS (devout worth 17.4 DPS)
vs group of 4: 290.6 DPS (devout worth 34.9 DPS)
vs group of 4 undead: 314.4 DPS (devout worth 37.7 DPS)

Since that assumes everything can be recast constantly as it's timer comes up, it'll be less effective than that in reality. But 10-30 DPS for a defensive-minded plate tank isn't that horrible... and Xegonite Devout has 1 more point of STR per piece than Xegonite Vanguard also, so there's a tiny gain in melee DPS as well.

For comparison, at 327 STR, autoattack plus all STR based arts:
pre-LU24 imbued cobalt flamberge, 55-165, 1.4s, 78.6
Condemnation, 132-211, 10s, 17.2
Zealous Strike's base damage portion, 225-376, 60s, 5.0
Destroy Will's base damage portion, 92-153, 30s, 4.1
Righteous Dash, 120-201, 20s, 8.0
Blessed Rush, 135-226, 20s, 18.1
Judgment Strike, 126-211, 10s, 16.9
Doom Judgment PBAE, 442, 300s, 1.5 AE
Holy Symbol PBAE, 250-418, 30s, 11.1 AE

STR based portion of DPS at 327 STR:
vs solo: 160.5 DPS
vs group of 4: 198.3 DPS

Again, this assumes every autoattack hits, and every combat art can be cycled as it's timer comes up, and, somehow, spells with a >1.4s cast time don't interrupt autoattack, so it's a ceiling on non-critical-hit average DPS.

So, is +INT worth it for a paladin? Not as much as a pure nuker, of course, but I like my INT boosts just fine. With an INT score about 2/3 of my STR score, my theoretical max DPS is 43% INT based against solo mobs, and 60% INT based against groups of 4. Devout armor's 112 INT would represent about a 5% DPS boost vs solo mobs, and 7% against groups.

[Troodon]

Most of those are spells I don't even use. With a limited space on the hotbuttons, I mainly keep up anything that will generate the most agro and interrupt the mobs, with some left over for backup healing. It does seem clear that int will help dps somewhat, but as a paladin dps is not really a primary concern for me, as my role is typically either as a tank or a backup healer. I do contribute to the dps somewhat but to what degree I do, I pretty much do enough as it is. To the limited degree I need int I just get it from the jewelry... I'd be willing to sacrifice some str for wis, to increase my power pool (not even really a sacrifice, as I get power from both str and wis), but not for int, which is a secondary stat at best. I'll stick with vanguard for now... if I was going to replace it with anything, I'd swtich to plate before I'd ever switch to devout. But thanks for the info.

Nothing wrong with the way you've geared your paladin... it's just that you've worked towards maximizing dps while I've tried to maximize agro generation and power pool. Just depends on your preferred play style really. For the way I play vanguard works better for me than devout. Str does more for a paladin than increase melee damage, it also raises the power pool.

[Troodon]

Found out that there is in fact an armor set that raises str, sta, and wis: stygian plate (dropped, not crafted). Would be nice except has less mitigation than xegonite (but more than adamantine), and don't really want to give up mitigation, lol. Otherwise would be great for paladins. Well it is great for paladins, until you can afford xegonite, took me a long time to save up for a full suit of xegonite.

[Troodon]

Wow old post and still on the front page lol... well if anyone still reads this should update a couple things:

int no longer does anything for anyone except mages. It no longer affects the max spell damage for any spell (not even for mages; the only thing mages get from it is their power pool).

Wis no longer has any affect on the power pool, except for priests. Paladins (as well as all other fighters) now get their power entirely from str. Wis still effects base spell resistance so is not entirely a useless stat to paladins though it's now much less of a priority as it used to be.

The plate set can now be imbued.

With the stat changes can't see how devout would be useful to anyone (they may change the stats on this to reflect the stats change in the future; but honestly, even before the change, never saw that devout was especially useful to anyone). Near as I can figure for plate wearers:

Devout (str/sta/int): useful to nobody!
vanguard (str/sta/agi): useful to paladins, SKs, guardians, berserkers
plate (sta/wis/int): useful to templars and inquisitors
righteous (str/sta/wis; doesn't exist until t8): useful to templars and inquisitors. Arguably to paladins and SKs.

[Prrasha]

The forum defaults don't show posts beyond a certain age... you have to change that in your profile, so newbies aren't going to be confused by 4-year-old posts that are still "on the front page", since they're not on the front page unless you ask for them.

(This is why Necroposting Is Bad (TM). Because now this 4-plus-year-old information IS on the front page for everyone. I saw you did that to another 2-year-old thread a week or so ago... you should probably stop doing so, so Niami doesn't have to clean everything up.)

[Troodon]

Originally Posted by Prrasha

The forum defaults don't show posts beyond a certain age... you have to change that in your profile, so newbies aren't going to be confused by 4-year-old posts that are still "on the front page", since they're not on the front page unless you ask for them.

(This is why Necroposting Is Bad (TM). Because now this 4-plus-year-old information IS on the front page for everyone. I saw you did that to another 2-year-old thread a week or so ago... you should probably stop doing so, so Niami doesn't have to clean everything up.)

Sorry... my general rule on message boards has usually been that anything on the front page is fair game... however on a much slower message board may have to amend that somewhat lol...

Anywho will use the 1 year rule from now on (changed my settings to only show posts from 1 year ago or newer), think that's reasonable. (Exception being if I'm posting specifically to update old information that's not widely known to have recently changed). One year is pretty long but for how slow this board moves think that's a reasonable cutoff.