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Old 12-22-2009, 06:33 PM   #1
Fraestus
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Default Spell Subrank Naming Convention

Greetings, 'Mum. I've been a lurker around here on and off for quite a bit and I have to give you formal kudos due to the herculean effort of maintaining such a resourceful hub of info as EQ Traders in general.

I've been looking around here since the EQ1 days, the info you so heartedly provided us back then was instrumental for me in my Coldain Shawl quest line back when, but I digress, that was a long time ago.

Anyways, I have to admit that I started playing EQ2 just recently, so I really haven't lived all the changes in Tradeskilling since the original release. Either way, I am happy to see that the project stays true not only for EQ1, but it has expanded itself to EQ2.

There's something that bothers me in particular and I've tried to get information on that through searches here in the forum, and/or reading up the tradeskill guides that are on the main site. However, I still haven't found a straight explanation to it, hence my attempt to formally have it somewhere.

The issue concerns the naming convention for the subranks of spells/abilities, hence why I'm putting this on the Scholar forum, since it's relevant for all Scholars.

I've seen both in old posts here in forums and several of the guides that spells are usually referred to as "Apprentice IV", "Adept III", etc. However, based on what I've noticed on the game's current state, I have seen the first word in the subranks of spells, but I have not seen the roman numeral after it, and this is what makes things fuzzy for me.

For instance, take the spell Meliorate (Templar Spell). There are different ranks that you learn as you gain adventuring levels, but these Ranks have the roman numerals after the spell name (ie, Meliorate, Meliorate II, etc), but before the subrank (ie, Apprentice, Adept, etc).

The subranks I see on the game right now are as follows: Apprentice (Base Spell), Journeyman ('common' Scholar craft), Adept (mob chest drop), Expert ('rare' Scholar craft), Master (Fabled chest drops or spell research), and Grandmaster (certain spells at certain levels through the Character Development traits). In none of the cases, there is a roman numeral after this subrank.

I would like to find out which of these correspond to the so-called "Apprentice IV, Apprentice III, Adept III", and similar naming that's seen in old posts and/or current scholar guides, in order to shed light on this.

If the matter has been discussed elsewhere, please point me to the proper direction, since I've had a hard time finding it. If it hasn't, then let's take this opportunity to have it formally stated here.

Thanks for your time reading, and warm regards. Keep up the good work, and a heartfelt thanks for the entire EQTC project since its beginnings.

Last edited by Fraestus; 12-22-2009 at 06:56 PM.
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Old 12-22-2009, 08:53 PM   #2
Mynervia Warsmith
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Ah yes, this was a (relatively) recent change, part of simplifying the spell naming conventions. It still confuses some people that have been playing with it the whole while . The ranks are:

(old) = (new)
Apprentice I = Apprentice
Apprentice IV = Journeyman
Adept I = Adept
Adept III = Expert
Master I = Master
Master II = Grandmaster

Apprentice II was vendor-sold, and was removed when these changes went live.
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Old 12-23-2009, 09:07 AM   #3
Fraestus
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Thanks for the heads up, Mynervia, that definitely clears things up for me.

Even so, I have another question, if anything for knowledge purposes of how things were in the past: I'd take it that the Apprentice ranks I-IV would have been the 'quality' of the spell/ability crafted, depending on how the durability bar was when the progress bar met it? The same would be for the Adept ranks, too? I'm wondering due to the jump from 'Apprentice I' to 'Apprentice IV' (excluding 'Apprentice II' that you already explained), and from 'Adept I' to 'Adept III'.
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Old 12-23-2009, 10:41 PM   #4
Mynervia Warsmith
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I believe you are correct. In the older system (which I only saw a little of personally, so the details are a bit fuzzy), you generally had 4 different qualities of product per recipe (one per durability bar) rather than just having the highest-quality option like we do now. For most items, these qualities were "Crude", "Shaped", (normal, no prefix), and "Pristine", but for items like the spells, these qualities translated into the old-style ranks of Apprentice I-IV. I'm not sure how it worked with Adepts - I believe that the Adept II was part of the crafting outcomes, but I'm not sure how that system dealt with only 3 Adept ranks rather than 4.

Tangent:
A few combines still use 4 distinct 'quality' levels - mostly when producing mass items, like potions or ammo, where higher 'quality' simply means more yield; or tinkering/transmuting, where higher 'quality' means you get more byproduct back (though the main product is the same at Crude as at Pristine). Several of the holiday recipes produce 1 item for Crude, Shaped, or Normal, but 2 items at Pristine. And other such similar pseudo-uses of the four different outcome slots.
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Old 01-26-2010, 01:03 PM   #5
Fraestus
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Just to point out that I found an explanation of these Naming Conventions on a Tentonhammer post (can't put link in due to post count):

Quote:
4.1 Spell Qualities

Levels of Spells:

Apprentice I – Granted at Levels 1-50 automatically on spells
Apprentice II – Purchased from a merchant in Freeport of Qeynos (or Maj’Dul for the 50-60 ones).
Apprentice III – Crafted but generally considered low quality.
Apprentice IV – Crafted and generally a good choice to replace Adept Is if you can't get 'em.
Adept I – These are dropped from “Treasure Chests” from any encounter. They are also rewards for some Deserts of Flames quests.
Adept III – These are “mastercrafted” items requiring a rare and are made by Sages in the case of priests.
Master I – These are dropped by creatures in raid zones or instances, but rarely will drop on heroic encounters.
Master II – These are selected from a table of choices at levels 14, 24, 34, 44, 54, 64, and 75.
Granted, I understand that this doesn't apply anymore, but still I think it's good to have for reference purposes.

I'm inclined to believe that this stays true across all classes, not only for Templars.

Warm regards.
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Old 08-25-2010, 03:45 PM   #6
Troodon
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Or another way to put it:

Apprentice- Gained automatically when you hit the appropriate adventuring level (formerly Apprentice I)

Journeyman- Crafted by player alchemists/jewelers/sages from common harvests (formerly Apprentice IV)

Adept- Fairly common drops from group encounters and ocassional drops from solo encounters. Can also be granted by NPC researcher if you have the Journeyman level spell. (formerly Adept I)

Expert- Crafted by player alchemists/jewelers/sages from rare harvests (formerly Adept III)

Master- Dropped from raid encounters or on rare ocassions, from heroic encounters. Can also be granted by NPC researcher if you have the Expert level of the spell. (formerly Master I)

Grandmaster- Can choose a limited number of these as part of your character development (formerly Master II)

Apprentice II used to be purchased from NPC vendors, and Apprentice III used to be crafted by players if they got the second highest quality, but there is no longer any equivalent of these spell levels. (Most NPCs that used to be Apprentice II sellers are now researchers, sell something else entirely, or have been removed. When crafting if you get anything less than the highest quality, you just get your fuel back or the rare if it's a rare recipe.)

In case you're curious, there never were any such spell level as Adept IV (occasionally some AA abilities had this designation, but all AA abilities are now just labeled Rank 1, Rank 2, etc. to avoid confusion with spell levels. If you failed to get pristine when attempting to make an Adept III you just got your rare back.). Nor was there ever Master III or Master IV. I think Adept II may have existed if you got less than pristine attempting to make a rare spell upgrade, but if so, it's since been removed. Memory's a little fuzzy as to wheyher it's been removed or never existed in the first place, but in either case, it's gone now.

Or old to new if you prefer:

Apprentice I = Apprentice
Apprentice II = no longer exists
Apprentice III = no longer exists
Apprentice IV = Journeyman
Adept I = Adept
Adept II = never existed (or if it did, it's been removed)
Adept III = Expert
Adept IV = never existed
Master I = Master
Master II = Grandmaster
Master III = never existed
Master IV = never existed
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Last edited by Troodon; 08-29-2010 at 03:10 AM.
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