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Old 02-10-2005, 08:26 AM   #1
Anya
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Default contents of the new books (per 2/9/05 patch)

These can all be bought at the wholesalers. Prices are in line with the first book of each tier.

Geomancy Essentials 1-4
Geomancy Essentials 1-4 (scrolled to see bottom)

Weaving Essentials 1-4
Weaving Essentials 1-4 (scrolled to the bottom)

Timbercraft Essentials 1-4

and lastly
Apothecary Essentials 1-4

at lvl 12 craftsman I can use the first book (tier 2) of each set.
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Old 02-10-2005, 08:46 AM   #2
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and the corresponding new buffs

Tier 2 buffs New - Page 1
Tier 2 buffs New - Page 2
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Last edited by Anya; 02-10-2005 at 08:49 AM. Reason: file # was incorrect
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Old 02-10-2005, 08:46 AM   #3
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thanks a lot for that. now we see that it's not just the refining but the whole ink etc. disappointing
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Old 02-10-2005, 09:08 AM   #4
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{snip} this forum is specifically for test server patch notices and questions/answers about said patches, not gripes/rants/etc.

Last edited by Moonshade; 02-10-2005 at 01:11 PM. Reason: improper usage of forum
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Old 02-10-2005, 09:38 AM   #5
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{snip} see above post. please voice your concerns/complaints in the proper forum. Thanks.

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Old 02-10-2005, 10:07 AM   #6
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Dont worry. Some people like myself are just too plain lazy and will still buy from others.
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Old 02-10-2005, 10:54 AM   #7
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Anya,

I just wanted to confirm what I see from these images and your notes:

1) Any crafter is able to use any of the 4 new disciplines
2) The new rcipe books start at level 10 [book 1 is the tier 2 recipes, book 2 is the tier 3 recipes, etc]
3) The recipes are just copies of the same recipes. In otherwords the equipment and skill required to make an item are unchanged. If it used to require weaponshaping, it still does.
4) Geomancy is effectively smithing on the forge or metal making on the worktable
5) Weaving is tailoring oin the sewing station, but also includes the patterns made at the sscribing station.
6) Timbercraft is the stuff made on the woodworking station
7) Apothecary is weird. its the reins, washes, tempers and oils, plus the ink, pluss the bottles, plus thread(??) [which is also on the weaving?? -- error?


Now a tricky thing... the new 4 disciplines also have buffs and I assume counters and events. Does that mean the new recipes are the same as the old ones they are copies of except that they use one of the four new skills?

I assume from your posting that we all get all four of the new disciplines automatically at each tier. So that means using the new spells I can easily make pristines using the new recipes. In fact, anyone could now make pristine inks.

Since anyone can make pristines using the new skills and new recipes it looks like every trade is not totally self sufficient and there is no need to work together to make stuff.

I also assume that we get skill raises using the new tier 2 buffs, just like in the other classes.

Does that mean we also have a new pair of skills one that goes up with level and one that goes up with use but is capped at the same level as the one that goes up with level?

Does it also mean that the current recipes have changed to use the new disciplines (I assume it does or it would be confusing)

I think it also means the following:

1) Alchemists make speels for figthers and posions/potions
2) Sribes make spells for healers and mages
3) Jewlers make jewelry and spells for scouts
4) Tailors make clothing for mages and some scouts and healers and fighters
5) Weaponsmiths make weapons
6) Armorers make clothing for mighters and a few other sub sclasses that can wear chain
7) Woodworkers make bows, staves, shields, wands, totems etc
8) Carpenters make boxes and furniture
9) Cooks make food

I can't see any dependencies left at all?

..... I think its a shame.... the way the classes were designed needed some balancing... but to just throw the whole interdendencies out the window seems like a sad end to the concept. It would be like saying "grouping is too hard so instead everyone can now solo anything".

Oh well....
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Old 02-10-2005, 11:26 AM   #8
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1) Any crafter is able to use any of the 4 new disciplines

yes as a Tier 2 craftman I have scribed book 1 of all 4 new disciplines

2) The new rcipe books start at level 10 [book 1 is the tier 2 recipes, book 2 is the tier 3 recipes, etc]


correct

3) The recipes are just copies of the same recipes. In otherwords the equipment and skill required to make an item are unchanged. If it used to require weaponshaping, it still does.

same recipe, different skill used for the combine. all classes (that I can see) still retain the same recipes in their own books ie. carpenter essentialls 20 still has ash lumber in it.


4) Geomancy is effectively smithing on the forge or metal making on the worktable

iron plate, hook, rings, etc shows up as using the forge.

5) Weaving is tailoring oin the sewing station, but also includes the patterns made at the scribing station.

yes. ie. tanned hilt, crafted at the loom

6) Timbercraft is the stuff made on the woodworking station

yes

7) Apothecary is weird. its the reins, washes, tempers and oils, plus the ink, pluss the bottles, plus thread(??) [which is also on the weaving?? -- error?


actually washes are missing completely and iron plate is listed in three places. I've /bugged both. Its gonna take some time to more thoroughly answer your questions but I can tell you I bought all four tier two books and made myself up a batch of stroma with little effort. Right now I am trying to build up a little cash so I can test stuff to a greater extent. Right now fuel costs make things ugly.


there are three counters for T1 and 2 thus far .. using the new apothecary as a fast example

Tier 1 (#'s are per the exact description on the buff)

Stir - Increase progress by 6-6
Coalesce - Decrease success chance by 6-6% \\ increase progress by 6-16
Test - decrease durability 3-3 \\ increase progress 8-8

Tier 2

Agitate - increase durability by 10-10
Consolidate - decrease success chance 6-6% \\ increase durability by 10-10
Examine - decrease progress by 24-24 \\ increase durability by 10-10
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Last edited by Anya; 02-10-2005 at 12:04 PM. Reason: clarity in a couple places.. grammar.. spelling :P
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Old 02-10-2005, 11:56 AM   #9
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On the Tier 2 Examine buff (hope its just a typo) but you mean

Examine - decrease progress by 24-24 \\ increase durability by 10-10

correct?

Also noticed that washes were missing from the books.

Oh, and thanks much for all the info you've given so far Anya. Much appreciated!
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Old 02-10-2005, 12:04 PM   #10
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oops. yes. *edits post again*
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Old 02-10-2005, 12:38 PM   #11
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Make sure to get them to add washes if u play on test, since it seems missing nod, and i cant wait, i will love to tradeskill again finally.
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Old 02-10-2005, 01:12 PM   #12
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Okay, I'm amused. Lots of people complain about the cross-dependencies. So SOE implements a means of eliminating at least some (perhaps all) of the crafter cross-dependencies, and people complain.

I think maybe they decided it wasn't working that well. I thought mostly it was. Mostly. I would have preferred that refining / planing lumber used my primary skill as a carpenter, instead of a secondary skill. But I could still make pristine goods planning my own lumber, so that was okay by me.

I suppose this means I might not have to level my 25 alchemist any further. I only made him for WORTs. It would be nice to focus all the low level combining XP on a single toon.

My primary carpenter pretty much never makes subcomponents for anyone else. Sure, I *can* make a few subcomponents, but I never bother unless a guildmate asks or someone is offering a very attractive price. So this is all good news for me.

Really sucks to be an alchemist right now, unless poisons and potions are suddenly going to become worth making.
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Old 02-10-2005, 01:14 PM   #13
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So... does this mean we'll get tier 3 buffs for the new skills?
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Old 02-10-2005, 01:16 PM   #14
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I don't want to edit every post in here that isn't strictly about test server patch info/questions. If you want to voice concerns about the change, take it to Primal please. Thanks.
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Old 02-10-2005, 01:56 PM   #15
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Pardon my density but does this means ALL crafters of any kind get 4 new skills? All crafters can scribe these books and ALL crafters can make any of these recipes, using skills that will allow them to do so and new counters associated with these new skills?

For example I am a level 41 weaponsmith. To make weapons handles I have to use the level 10 outfitter coutners and a level 19 capped tailoring skill.

If I am undertstanding this, the new system will allow me to use a new skill that caps at my level to make my weapon handles, with new counters that cap at my level as well? And I can do this for any and all subcombines in game if I have the books?

If that is so then I am totally boggled. They have basically made every trade class the same with the sole exeption of finished good recipe combines? Do I understand this right?
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Old 02-10-2005, 01:59 PM   #16
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It looks like there are no rare recipes in here.

Perhaps there are dropped books? or is it intentional?

Can sages make rare ink?
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Old 02-10-2005, 02:03 PM   #17
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cant confirm either way yet. Not much economy on test. broker has perhaps 10 pages total and I am much too small to be getting advanced book drops still can go back stuff in Oakmyst soon though and see
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Old 02-10-2005, 02:19 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harvyst
It looks like there are no rare recipes in here.

Perhaps there are dropped books? or is it intentional?
The patch notes from test specifically mention some of the new books would be dropping off mobs as well so I can only assume that means that those would be the rare combine versions of these normal books.
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Old 02-10-2005, 03:14 PM   #19
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Still trying to get my head around this, but if I am reading this correctly we ONLY get first book of the new tier. This is exactly what happened for tier 2, when we were able to scribe those books only (which I still say was intended, and this "change" proves it). We *CAN* make these refines, but the quality will be low. This will mean less xp per final combine if we make our own interms (all are not pristine = lower xp for the final, as I understood it), or longer time on combines if you fight to get the pristine. I also hope the new buffs are progress only, and not durability...this will further reinforce this.

To me, the only tier that was working was 1-2. Making our own interms was hard, time consuming, and frustrating. It was MUCH easier to have someone of the appropriate class to make them for us and trade them for interms. The only time it was worth making my own was when no one was available to make them. So far, I like this change...but let's see how it pans out, and if I even unstand it correctly.

I just REALLY hope they fix the final combines for classes. As a t5 jeweler, selling an item for COST now was nearly impossible. If they now cost 4-6x more due to fuel costs, forget about it. I know alchs are now in the same boat, and other crafters I am sure.
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Old 02-10-2005, 03:29 PM   #20
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My test character is a lvl 12 craftsman. I scribed all FOUR of the above 'white con' books. - Geomancy 1, Weaving 1, Timbercraft 1, Apothecary 1 - there IS only 1 "essential" book per tier. Someone mentioned that test notes denote new book drops. Likely it will be Advanced Weaving 1, 2, 3 etc. so that rare combines can also be done w/in their own chosen class and not have to turn to another class to have them made.

Stroma went all the way to pristine for me - and I got 4 yield just like an alch. Wasnt difficult to get pristine either. I also made some trinoid reagent w/o much effort. Cant get any further because washes are missing but I will say that I remember that the reagent was the hardest part of making ink from my alch on live.
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Old 02-10-2005, 05:56 PM   #21
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Just a quick question about tiered fuel .. is it required (ie as level 10 you MUST use the t2 fuel) or is it simply recommended?
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Old 02-10-2005, 06:13 PM   #22
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Tier 2 recipes will require tier 2 fuels.
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Old 02-10-2005, 06:28 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adagia
Tier 2 recipes will require tier 2 fuels.
Have you confirmed this?
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Old 02-10-2005, 06:35 PM   #24
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lookin right at it. brown coal (t2), will only 'plug in' to tier 2 recipes.
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Old 02-11-2005, 01:35 AM   #25
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I was going over the notes at EQ2 that moorgard updated tonight (and mentioned this live push *sigh*) and found I missed this tidbit : These skills increase through use. Now I gotta go back and see if this is the case. I never got a 'skillup' of apothecary yet it was sitting right there with culinary at 63/63. Time to go push a couple mini dings more and see what it does.

addendum :

*ding!* - and with closer examination - ah-ha what light dawns on marble head. the flipping of the ink knowledge / technique threw me and had me looking the wrong way. (which, incidently wasnt fixed in the 2/10 patch)

apothecary 66/66 - static for books
thaumaturgy 32/68 - fluctuates for quality

geomancy 66/66
geocraft 31/68

weaving 66/66
binding 31/68

timbercraft 66/66
woodcraft 31/68


so likely with use for your trade you will skill these up anyway but my 50 prov likely wont be making inks anytime soon unless I decide to retake up t2 carpentry in my spare time.. and with fuel costs.. not likely. So with dilligence to skills you can still make good quality (not that you need good quality) subs, including chem/ink.

Last edited by Anya; 02-11-2005 at 03:30 AM.
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