idea: tinkered roboboars

[Zilditen]

{I've moved these from the Top 10 List to here for continued discussion - Verdandi}

A way to tinker Robo mounts would be cool. I would love to ride around on a mecha-spider or rat!

[Quseio]

Nolrog how soon might we see a upgraded Robo boar ? maybe PoR?...

[uncleshmoozo]

And the roboar thing is already a possibility on my list of "future expansion ideas" but not set in stone.

And while the speed may be able to be affected... the vibration is part of the animation, and extremely unlikely to be changed.

The only reason I did not do the speed increases already was I needed to consult with the Team Lead about it before I did it, because we would not be letting people create boars, just upgrade existing ones... and I wanted to be sure with the lead that it was okay to do this with something that was a box incentive and not something everyone has the ability to get in game.

That's fair enough.



One thing I'm wondering about this is that it seems to me that the most rational skill for upgrading the roboboar is tinkering. Since only gnomes can perform most tinkering combines, I'm guessing that you'd have to make something like a tradeable tinkered item that anybody could install into their roboboars as a no-fail combine using a toolbox (or ... see below ) just as people who are not gnomes can recharge their tinkered items by combining them with mana batteries.

I'd love to have the ability to make those with my gnome (tinkering skill currently at 253 and rising), but he's currently only level 16 and very unlikely to go much beyond that. Could you perhaps be nice enough not to place any of the items needed for those upgrade units in places which would make them utterly impossible for him to acquire?

I'd really appreciate that.



I mean ... I can get to a lot of high level places with my 70 rogue and my 63 druid, but the gnome won't be able to. I have to believe I'm not the only one who has a low level gnome alt whose only real purpose in the game is tinkering. Can you take us into consideration on this? Heck, just making sure that the items needed to make the upgrade units weren't no trade would be enough.



Also, it would be great if the roboboar upgrades were coded in a way that didn't preclude a person who had put in a low level speed upgrade from ever installing a higher level speed upgrade. Know what I mean?



One possibility? How about coding the upgrades as tinkered augments that would only fit into the roboboar summoning items? That would allow anybody to install them, and it would also allow them to be removed when a person wanted to upgrade the roboboar even more.

Just a thought.

[Ngreth Thergn]

There are many ideas on how to do the upgrade But yes, my initial thoughts are tinkering (though one person said tailoring... and give it racing stripes) a tradeable part, that is then combined.

The where to get pats... dunno.

But...

The upgrade would be as expensive as current horses are... so... expensive!

[uncleshmoozo]

Some Roboboar Upgrade Ideas ...

But...

The upgrade would be as expensive as current horses are... so... expensive!

I would, of course, expect that. I would hope, however, that the upgrade items (which should of course be tradable) would wind up having a similar final retail cost when sold on bazaar traders to the cost for comparable horses and drogmors. In other words, the final retail cost for the item to upgrade the roboboar to a speed comparable to the fastest horses and drogmors should be very close to the cost for the fastest horses and drogmors. It shouldn't be significantly more. It shouldn't be significantly less. Fair is fair, after all.



One way to assure this was the case would be to make all (or very nearly all) of the items needed for the combine merchant bought. None of the items needed for the combines should be particularly rare, and none should be no-trade items that only drop in zones where only high-end raiders can access. After all, fast drogmors and horses are readily available from merchants to anybody with the necessary plat including a level 1 character. Fast roboboars shouldn't be restricted to the tiny handful of folks who happen to be bleeding edge raiders.

Furthermore, while I think that the combines should probably have fairly high trivials, the trivials for them should not be so insanely high that only 300 skill tinkers have a decent chance of making any of them. If we were to assume that there would be several different upgrades the slower ones should have lower trivials. After all, the failure rate should not be so high on these that the cost for them rises significantly over the cost of comparably speedy mounts.

Assume, for example, that you were to create recipes for 3 different upgrade units which would give the roboboar speed respectively comparable to each of the 3 horse/drogmor speeds above the base model. The lowest speed upgrade should probably have a fairly modest trivial that would be no higher than about the level of, say, the common geerloks from the Luclin era which I think is about 215. The top speed upgrade should not be higher than right around 300, and the middle grade model should, of course, be somewhere in between those two.

Furthermore there should be enough profit margin in the items if they are made by a decently skill tinkerer that there is at least some plat to be made by making and selling them in the bazaar. There wouldn't be much point in introducing these recipes into the game if the cost of making them was so high that a tradeskiller could make no profit at all from making them. If it costs 95,000 plat for each attempt to make the highest speed upgrade unit, for example, then the actual cost of making them after factoring in even a minimal failure rate would be high enough that you'd have to charge more than most of the market would bear to make any profit at all.

Several other concerns.

Assume, for the moment, that you were to set the trivial for the fastest speed upgrade unit somewhere close to 300. The cost of the combines alone would effectively negate their value as a skillup path. After all, the market for these things on any given server is going to be extremely limited so it isn't as though there will be enough of a market to support significant numbers of skillups for more than a tiny handful of tinkerers unless the tinkerer is willing to create and destroy hundreds of the items, effectively burning plat at a rate of tens of thousands of plat per final combine attempt. (I'm assuming that the items would not sell back to merchants for anything like the cost of making them and perhaps not at all.)

That's fine. There's no rational reason to assume that these would or should necessarily be useful as recipes for skillups.

It would be nice, however, if the items do, at least, have some value for tribute.



Also, the more I think about the idea of making these as augments which are specific to the roboboars and which can be removed to allow one to install a higher speed upgrade later the more I like that idea. I'm honestly not sure how hard the coding for that would be, but if it's not too much trouble I do hope you'll consider that as a possibility. I don't know what a person would do with the upgrade item after they have removed it, but it would be nice if it were not just useless after that. Some way of compensating the player for the item would be nice ... perhaps by selling it to another player? I'm not really sure what to suggest here, but do keep in mind that people can and do trade in their other mounts (at a significant loss, of course) when they want a faster one.



One last thing to think about, probably not now, but perhaps for down the road quite a ways. (Very low priority, this one. ) What about the idea of being able the change the color or finish of one's roboboar using some sort of process? Perhaps there could be a few paint or plating options, for example. I'm talking surface coatings here, not changes to the underlying model, mind you. Yeah, I know ... those would have to be added to the global file (wouldn't they?), but it might be fun, nevertheless.



I'm thinking that three additional finishes would be reasonable. That would bring the total number of options available to 4 which is the same as what we have for the other mounts. Some possible alternatives:

• a brass or copper plated look
• a platinum, silver or chrome plated look
• a "black chrome" finish that would appear to be "blackish" but which would not be so dark that it would hide all the model's details.

[If you've never seen "black chrome" then click HERE for an image that illustrates the finish on the end of a motorcycle exhaust.]

Just a thought. File it for future reference if you think there's any value in it. Otherwise discard it and smile politely at the lunatic who suggested it.

[Bobaten]

How about something like this:
Smithing combine: reinforced drive legs-upgrades a standard boar to leather-horse-speed boar.
Brewing combine: improved lubricating oil-upgrades a leather-speed boar to silken speed.
Tailoring combine: all surface traction boots-upgrades a silken-speed boar to chain speed.
(other ideas would be pottery based lightweight ceramic parts, tailored light weight saddle, fletching for lighter carved wooded parts, alchemy/poison making/brewing for improved coolant, etc.
All of these could be from vendor purchased parts, with a few easy-to-get drops/forages. But finally there would be:
No skill: supercharged pig power source-upgrades a chain-speed boar to ornate chain speed. This would require a rarish no-drop raid piece. However the combine to insert it is done in a tinkered AAAA-like container.

[Wycca]

Probably would be simpler to make tinkering mastery AA questable/etc along the lines of Trials of Mata Muram/DoN AA. Perhaps a system that requires 1500 kills or something similar in nature to the cultural armor tasks.

[Zilditen]

Go read the Ak'Anon newspaper. One of the later ones mentions there have been some "accidents" related to gnomes attempting to upgrade their roboboars and do things like tint the eyes to prettier colors! Black chrome roboboar with blood red eyes would own hard!

[Wyvernwill]

The flaw with all tradeskilled items is this. If the cost of the parts to purchase for the combines off of a vendor are roughly equal to the level of the horse/drog, then the item is going to be in the bazaar for considerably more.

If the prices are even half the price, some people will get off very cheaply in a respect for their mounts. Plus, the price in the end, would probably drop cheaper.

More than likely, in the end, the Roboar upgrades would cost considerably more than horses. Atleast that's what my projected outlook would be if these upgrades actually happened.

[uncleshmoozo]

The flaw with all tradeskilled items is this. If the cost of the parts to purchase for the combines off of a vendor are roughly equal to the level of the horse/drog, then the item is going to be in the bazaar for considerably more.

If the prices are even half the price, some people will get off very cheaply in a respect for their mounts. Plus, the price in the end, would probably drop cheaper.

More than likely, in the end, the Roboar upgrades would cost considerably more than horses. Atleast that's what my projected outlook would be if these upgrades actually happened.

No doubt about it. Balancing the costs of these things against the costs of the various merchant purchased mounts is going to be tricky. No matter how it's done at least some people will be unhappy. Some will be unhappy if they cannot make a reasonable profit selling them in the Bazaar. Others will be unhappy if people with roboboars can get their speedy mounts cheaper than other merhcant bought mounts.