Melee Research

[Xerius]

Originally Posted by Jidokwon

The melee research path was more costly the the older jewelcrafting ones (think I went through about 400k to take research to 243 and I'm sure having salvage capped brought it down). Considering the cost, I'm not able to trivial a 56th level tome yet, while int casters of comparible level (with much better paths handed to them - binding powder) can make 61st spells with trivial combines, not to mention trophies and research AA.

That seems a bit odd, since I am very certain I did not spend half that much funding my wife's Warrior climb to 300 Research. Admittedly, both of us farmed as much of that path as possible, so if you were spending 400k buying Sulfur and Saltpeter, you paid for convenience, in which case you could have avoided the cost by farming your own.

As to the 56 melee trivial vs the 61 caster trivial, that is very much changed by 300, with caster trivials being noteably higher for similar level spells, balanced by the existance of the Mastery AA's, which bring both Researchers into line with each other (mostly; it was said initially that melee would always have a somewhat harder time with Research, since writing down their art is harder for them).

[Jidokwon]

I'm reviewing the trivial list, trying to recall the exact path, but it was two or three months ago. It was prior to the Complete Tradeskill Guide 6.1. I missed this thread entirely, back then, but there wasn't much info on Melee Researching in the Research forum.

I believe I did Vials of Pure Water from 0 to 50ish. As I mentioned, the CR 50ish freebie combines weren't doable in the tome binding kit for me. I don't like waisting my GM points, when they aren't needed, but it looks like there is/was an exploit where training one point rewards a ton of points. I'm also not sure how to pick up researching aa, as a monk.

I missed the Oil of Vitrol altogether. You're right, farming the sulfer/saltpeter and doing those would've saved quite a bit. Paying for the convenience of a vendor path is one thing, but overlooking something like this was plain ingnorant on my part.

Even overlooking something that bad, try comparing the cost of the "convenient" vendor path of melee researching to those of poison, tinkering, alchemy, fletching, and others.

[Xerius]

Well, the simplest method I could think of was just to run a couple of samples from the EQTraders Calculator.

I managed to duplicate your results, to a point at least, by starting at 50 skill and doing nothing but a 243 trivial Research combine up to 243. It required 1066 combines and cost 347,470 plat to get there.

I then went to a similar Poison making route (since there is no vendor only route in Alchemy above 224 that I could find, and no Tinkering combine purely vendor bought over 204). I had to use a 231 trivial combine, since otherwise I would have to go to a 275 trivial in order to maintain the boundary conditions of vendor bought only, then moved to the 275 trivial combine to get to 243 skill. It required 1065 combines and cost 15,471 to get to 243, although I did have to do another 907 high trivial Pottery combines on top of that and I assumed I could get my hands on 907 Sulfur (I would have had to drop below 200 in order to find a Poison Making combine that was purely vendor, and sulfur is fairly common in the Bazaar).

Going a more moderate route, working through the trivials according to the current 6.1 guide, I cut the Research costs to 170,530 over the course of 837 combines, although the Poison Making route only dropped to 13,960 and 997 combines, since vendor routes get very scarce over 200 (Spirit of Sloth excepted, which is 1066 combines and 6,330 plat to use it from 50 to 243 if you make your own vials). To be fair though, if I farm my own sulfur and saltpeter, the Research route drops to 99,740 plat over the same 838 combines.

Conclusion is that Research is an expensive tradeskill, but not really out of line compared to what Smithing was like a couple years ago and unlike Tinkering (204), Alchemy (224) or Fletching (235, but at a cost of 375,023 to get there) there is a vendor bought route to 243.

[Shadrok]

For future reference ...

The Crescent Reach tasks (and any research combines) won't work until you have 1 point in research. So, you MUST visit your GM and spend one training point to kick-start your researching careeer.

[Jidokwon]

I'm getting conflicting information on a few things related to melee research.

I don't like killing guild master points, as I do some testing from time to time. As a monk (melee class) I was able to skill up just fine from 1 to 243 using the melee kit. I didn't need a "kick start" of any kind. I've never seen a "kick start" requirement in any tradeskill or any skill for that matter (even all the languages can be learned without blowing GM points). I tried the "freebie" task in CR, but couldn't use the spell kit for the combines (I didn't think to try the melee kit, as it task specifically said to use the spell kit). I was able to do combines for Quill of the Transcendent right from the start with no "kick start." (looking up Quill of the Trancendent here looks like the Quill needed no longer exists, but I certainly hope they don't suddenly start adding "kick start" requirements to skills).

Another conflict is do melee classes get any research aa? I've been told it should be in my class aa, but it doesn't exist on my 75th monk or my 85th monk both having all expansions. While I appreciate any one helping and making suggestions, most of the conflicting information I've run into has been from nonmelee classes. I've yet to talk with an actual melee researcher to verify if we get a research aa. If so, I don't have it and would appreciate learning how to unlock it. I tried blowing a skill point at the guild master to see if that would unlock it, but at 243 I'm too high for him to raise.

I haven't touched the trophy yet, but am planning to do that today in hopes I can get it and it is working. I don't do much testing with my FV characters and the character slots are rather limited. If I were to test anything on my Test server characters, I'd likely add to conflicting info if anything I did there didn't go live. I'm willing to create a melee research test dummy on another live server and think that'd be more appropriate for this thread.

[Gorse]

Originally Posted by Jidokwon

I'm getting conflicting information on a few things related to melee research.

I don't like killing guild master points, as I do some testing from time to time. As a monk (melee class) I was able to skill up just fine from 1 to 243 using the melee kit. I didn't need a "kick start" of any kind. I've never seen a "kick start" requirement in any tradeskill or any skill for that matter (even all the languages can be learned without blowing GM points). I tried the "freebie" task in CR, but couldn't use the spell kit for the combines (I didn't think to try the melee kit, as it task specifically said to use the spell kit). I was able to do combines for Quill of the Transcendent right from the start with no "kick start." (looking up Quill of the Trancendent here looks like the Quill needed no longer exists, but I certainly hope they don't suddenly start adding "kick start" requirements to skills).

I have not tested, but I seem to recall I needed to go to a guild master and spend one point for it to show up on my skills list.

Originally Posted by Jidokwon

Another conflict is do melee classes get any research aa? I've been told it should be in my class aa, but it doesn't exist on my 75th monk or my 85th monk both having all expansions. While I appreciate any one helping and making suggestions, most of the conflicting information I've run into has been from nonmelee classes. I've yet to talk with an actual melee researcher to verify if we get a research aa. If so, I don't have it and would appreciate learning how to unlock it. I tried blowing a skill point at the guild master to see if that would unlock it, but at 243 I'm too high for him to raise.

Only INT classes get the "Research" AAs (Arcane AMstery I believe they are called). Hybrids and Priest classes have to spend AAs to buy the ability to allow their skill to advance beyond 200. When you talked to a "melee" was a WAR MNK ROG BER? I imagine it was a hybrid that was meaning the AAs to advance beyond 200 skill.

Originally Posted by Jidokwon

I haven't touched the trophy yet, but am planning to do that today in hopes I can get it and it is working. I don't do much testing with my FV characters and the character slots are rather limited. If I were to test anything on my Test server characters, I'd likely add to conflicting info if anything I did there didn't go live. I'm willing to create a melee research test dummy on another live server and think that'd be more appropriate for this thread.

In general, it is better to do make the trophies early and let them level up with you (using a Geerlok at the same time would give you the +5% while still evolving the trophy). The reason is because (in general) the drops for the lower level trophies are easier to farm / obtain than the higher level trophy requirements. Individual results may vary depending on what you have saved up and your ability to farm parts.

Can the trophies be traded? If yes, I would think it would be easiest to make one on a low skill level researcher and transfer. If not, good luck on the task.




Gorse

[Jidokwon]

Thanks for clearing some of that up. It was definitly not melee classes that I was hearing I should have some research aa from, though a few claimed to have melee researchers.

I haven't tested anything with an entirely new character yet, but I was able to pick up the trophy task fine with 243 skill. I haven't attemped all the combines of the task yet, so not 100% if it's doable, but looked fine at a glance.

I'm likely overlooking something obvious, but some of the tomes are well above what I'll be capped, no? I know I can attempt them anyhow, but 300 is going to be the cap minus mods?