New tinkering idea

[Rhynoe]

I was playing the other day and thought of an idea for a new tinkering item. Gnomish Positioning System (GPS). 5 click track item.

Would just be basic track wouldn't be able to sort like Rangers do. I wouldn't consider it game changing, or class imbalance. 3 classes have track already and I wouldn't consider it to be class defining for any of them other then Rangers ability to sort the track.

I think it's be more like stalking probes use, nice to have but nothing that's going to make a break the game and I'd make them around the same difficulty to make (which isn't that hard) Please no rare farms for a toy to use.

What do you guys think?

[Xerius]

It has possibilities, but as it does duplicate a core ability of one class to some degree and up to this point has been an ability limited to only three classes, it might need some tweaking to find a point where it is uncommon but still possible enough to make to be useful.

Perhaps a single charge item instead of five, put it up around 250 Trivial and require a Haze Panther Eye to make. That should keep it from being too common but still allow it to be made in small numbers with no major drawbacks.

Should there be too many complaints about an item with those limitations, then perhaps the item would cut too far into core class abilities and should not be made at all.

[Rhynoe]

I wouldn't think it'd be a core ability of a class personally. I don't see an outrage of ranger/druid/bards saying people wont need us in groups or raids any more cause there are track items out there. I think 5 is a reasonable charge amount with 1 charge people probably wouldn't waste their time making them even if they were stackable, even 5 charges will probably discourage people from making them a lot but because of it being a class ability I think it's a fair trade from 10 charge or more down to 5. Heck foraging was a class ability now everyone has an AA to do it eh.

[Gorse]

Originally Posted by Rhynoe

Heck foraging was a class ability now everyone has an AA to do it eh.

Foraging was multi-class and partially racial, but otherwise correct.


Interesting idea, not sure how much of a coding issue it would cause and or if it could be used (by someone with tracking) to enhance their ability beyond normal means.


I would also reconsider the naming concept. As is, it seems reads as a device to identify where you are, vice locating other things. Maybe call it Tinkered Rhynoean Automated position cheCKING Device or something of that sort. =)



Gorse

[Xerius]

Originally Posted by Rhynoe

I wouldn't think it'd be a core ability of a class personally. I don't see an outrage of ranger/druid/bards saying people wont need us in groups or raids any more cause there are track items out there. I think 5 is a reasonable charge amount with 1 charge people probably wouldn't waste their time making them even if they were stackable, even 5 charges will probably discourage people from making them a lot but because of it being a class ability I think it's a fair trade from 10 charge or more down to 5. Heck foraging was a class ability now everyone has an AA to do it eh.

The idea is not to be reasonable, since you are giving an ability formerly the province of only three classes to all classes. Foraging was an ability that a few classes got and a small number of races had as inate abilities, and when it was given to all classes, it cost AA's. At the time it was given, the number of AA's was a more or less reasonable sacrifice, although in the present day, it is possible to gain AA's fast enough that the Forage ability cost is more negligible than it should be.

If you wish to add an ability that is really quite useful, you want to balance the number of the things entering the world against the utility. Essentially, you want them available, but not common, otherwise you do cut into the ability of three classes.

If you believe that five charges is reasonable though, that could likely be balanced by changing the components needed to make it to again balance the availability. I chose the Haze Panther Eye earlier because they are not uncommon, but there are only a limited number of Haze Panthers around, and the use of Haze Panther Eyes in your Tracking device would conflict with those presently being used to make Vanishing Devices, which would hopefully further limit the number of Tracking devices showing up. To give the item five charges, my suggestion already factors in one uncommon component, so I would add another component not quite so rare, but again in conflict with other uses. A five charge item would then require a Haze Panther Eye, a Silver Conduit Large Core, and two Infused Dark Matter.

This would still keep them trickling into the world, but would limit how many would be around. Remember, you are trying to offer an ability to replace that offered by a class, so you do not want everybody in the game to have access to an unlimited supply of the things. Using a couple of uncommon components and one requiring a couple of subcombines, while keeping the trivial high but not impossibly high, I would think they would appear, since contrary to your statement, I know how desireable they would be, but there would not be a thousand of them selling in Bazaar at all times.

[Rhynoe]

How many classes could summon eye of zooms? 2? Mages and wizards. Yet Stalking Probs don't need uncommon farmed drops to make. And Holgresh Elder Beads are probably the most sought after casino for utility (some can argue DEF mask but that's more a toy)

[Rhynoe]

Also, another downside to uncommon componets is, if it's too much of a hassle to make, people don't make it. Pretty simple. So why bother taking the time and energy putting something into the game that people aren't going to end up making. Look at the FD potions for example (another class specific ability).

Great idea, people loved the concept, but when it came to farming it was a PITA so people gave up on it. If something is going to be hard to farm, then it needs to have a lot of charges on it to make it worth it, the easier it is to farm, the lower the charges IMO.

[Aldier]

Originally Posted by Rhynoe

Also, another downside to uncommon componets is, if it's too much of a hassle to make, people don't make it. Pretty simple. So why bother taking the time and energy putting something into the game that people aren't going to end up making. Look at the FD potions for example (another class specific ability).

Great idea, people loved the concept, but when it came to farming it was a PITA so people gave up on it. If something is going to be hard to farm, then it needs to have a lot of charges on it to make it worth it, the easier it is to farm, the lower the charges IMO.

What FD potion?

Are you talking about the Interplanar Brain Blaster?

[Gorse]

Originally Posted by Rhynoe

Look at the FD potions for example (another class specific ability).

Except that they never were intended to be (and never were for that matter) fiegn death potions. They are an alcoholic beverage meant to make you fall down drunk. They used the FD animation as the mechanic for it.


Gorse

[Aldier]

And that FD mechanic has like a 1% (at most) chance of success so it is not an FD potion imo.

[Xerius]

One thinks you are grasping at straws here.

The ability to walk into a zone, click an item, and know every mob that is up within a good portion of the zone is rather potent.

Simply making any class core ability widely available for the buying is questionable, and your stated belief that the abilities should not only be available, but readily available, does not sound workable.

I am willing to entertain a Gnomish Tracking device, but I would want it difficult enough to make to be uncommon, and limited enough in scope to be something people do not buy by the hundreds to eliminate the need for a Tracking class in a group.

If the device is to be as available as you wish, and as trivial to make as you seem to be demanding, perhaps it should be limited to an equivalent Tracking skill of 20, just to put some manner of limitation on the thing.

Everything has to be worked with carefully, and more so when you are working with fundamental class skills.

[Rhynoe]

Originally Posted by Xerius

One thinks you are grasping at straws here.

The ability to walk into a zone, click an item, and know every mob that is up within a good portion of the zone is rather potent.

Simply making any class core ability widely available for the buying is questionable, and your stated belief that the abilities should not only be available, but readily available, does not sound workable.

I am willing to entertain a Gnomish Tracking device, but I would want it difficult enough to make to be uncommon, and limited enough in scope to be something people do not buy by the hundreds to eliminate the need for a Tracking class in a group.

If the device is to be as available as you wish, and as trivial to make as you seem to be demanding, perhaps it should be limited to an equivalent Tracking skill of 20, just to put some manner of limitation on the thing.

Everything has to be worked with carefully, and more so when you are working with fundamental class skills.

I never said something to track the whole zone, or a "good portion" which is a relative term. Something like old bard track think that was 50 skill. (which has been increased)

I don't know what groups you've been in, but I don't think that I've EVER formed a group and said to myself hrm, we need to save a spot for a tracker! It's a nice utility to have yes but not make or break a normal group. I know some raids that require the use of track to see what mobs popped in certain order, but raids generally have enough tracking classes (druid, bard, ranger) to be able to no be threatened by a device.

Personally I've also felt that the level of difficulty making an item should be just that, the actual trivial of making the item, not the ability to farm items be it rare drops or hard mobs. Like I said before Drop rates just discourages people from making items and makes it pointless to make the item in the first place.