New Arrows???? Please

[Marylynn]

Any chance they might gift us with new arrows in UF? Its been a good while sense we gotten an arrow upgraded to TS.

[Aldier]

There can not be any new arrow recipes until the devs find a way to solve the problems of Endless Quiver. This has been stated multiple times.

Any new high damage or arrows would have to be expendable and until the coding for that is fixed, do not expect any new arrows.

[Stewwy]

Solution - refund endless quiver and revamp it to have multiple levels of advancement which progressively uses high triv arrows until it reaches 400 triv arrows.

Make it exceedingly cheap to use store bought arrows with EQ, and exceedingly expensive to use it with 300+ triv arrows. Like 200 AA's to max through all it's levels. if you spend 200 AA's on EQ then I say you should be able to use any dern arrow you wish.

The problem isn't the arrows. The problem is Endless Quiver.

[Tenstone]

The code structure of the new poison system should lend itself well to fixing this problem. The way I can see this working is as follows:

1. Make Endless Quiver an activated AA
2. Activating Endless Quiver casts a spell "Replicate Arrow" which creates 100 consigned copies of the arrow found highest in your inventory and consumes one arrow as the reagent, i.e. if you have 20 Blessed Champion Arrows highest in your inventory, activating Endless Quiver would create 100 Consigned Blessed Champion Arrows and consume one regular Blessed Champion Arrow.

[Elyssanda]

Since Gates of Discord came out I have always saved up chunks of taelosian and discord rocks to make arrows with.....
I realized this week. (sad I know) That you can make better arrows completely storebought. It's pathetic that something completely storebought is better than something that requires semi rare drops.
I'm going back to farming shadow/fire/ice tipped arrow supplies..

[AbyssalMage]

Originally Posted by Aldier

There can not be any new arrow recipes until the devs find a way to solve the problems of Endless Quiver. This has been stated multiple times.

Any new high damage or arrows would have to be expendable and until the coding for that is fixed, do not expect any new arrows.

Let me respond to the second statement first. There are arrows in SoF(?) that you can craft. Not sure of their trivial or damage/range or anything else for that matter, but I do know that EQ doesn't effect them. I also know the drop rate is PITTIFUL.

Now for the first response....
Yes, this is the official line of SOE and because of it Rangers petitioned to have their Epic 1.5/2.0 changed cause of the developers need to repeatedly hold to this line of thought (among other reasons that were probally more important).

Secondly, if EQ was that overpowering, SOE hasn't demonstrated it to the community. First they have to get past the fact that 5 classes can use bows, War, SK, Pal, Ranger, and Rogue.

If arrows were that powerful then you would see every class that could use bows run around with QUIVERS full of these arrows and kill mobs in xp groups. Because this never happened we can determine that it isn't the arrow's that is the problem (Well, duh, they said its the EQ ability dip sh*t )

If...as I just said (and others have also said), then we should look at Rangers and Endless Quiver. We don't see Rangers run around full of quivers with these expendable arrows.

http://http://mboards.eqtraders.com/...ad.php?t=31154 (Found the post)

As the post also states, they are craptacular.

So the problem looks that the only reason they are having a at SOE is they want them expendable. It has nothing to do with class balance. We have weapons that never require "repairing" and Rangers have 2 forms of weapons that don't need "repairing." I would love to have EQ on my toons or another version for those who can only use throwing weapons but I don't find the ability not to use expendable arrows unbalancing. Archery Master 1/2/3 is more unbalancing to me than EQ. The other problem is how agro is generated with bow's. I think those are two more important issue's than 1 of 5 classes having the ability not to use ammo. Sorry, I smell BS from Sony like many other things they "say" and have a hard time believing anything they say anymore.

*** Update ***
This is a 50 Damage arrow. Yet as the post states above...His damage with weapons was still better before Disc'ing. So in all honesty SOE could produce 50+ damage arrows and you would still DPS better with your 1h weapons in current content. Not to mention Rangers get more effect from their AM aa's w/bows than the other 4 classes w/bows.

[Krrak]

I think most of the fuss is the fact that rangers can get 24-28 aa's in a single lesson in the Hive instance - Lost Gnomes - without any difficulty. Upping the cost of EQ won't matter really as even at 200 aa's that would take 8 lessons to get (and that's if you do NOTHING else) so 4 hours worth of work to get those 200 aa's isn't difficult

[AbyssalMage]

Originally Posted by Krrak

I think most of the fuss is the fact that rangers can get 24-28 aa's in a single lesson in the Hive instance - Lost Gnomes - without any difficulty. Upping the cost of EQ won't matter really as even at 200 aa's that would take 8 lessons to get (and that's if you do NOTHING else) so 4 hours worth of work to get those 200 aa's isn't difficult

Thats awsome!

[Stewwy]

Apologies to the OP

[Gorse]

My only comment is before you tout the ease at which it is to headshot farm Lost Gnomes for AAs, you give it a try yourselves.

Minimum required to be able to start:
Level 85
102 AAs (may actually be 17, not sure if AM2 and 3 are rerequired for higher levels of headshot)
Access to multiple accounts (can get by with 2 with mercs)
TBS faction to buy at least Rank I of Vinelash Cascade.

Required to even get close to crossing 20 AAs per lesson)
3500+ AC 30K+ HPs (most would recommend at least 4K AC)
AAs in Combat Agility (18+), Combat Stability (18+), Spell Casting Mastery (level 11+), Shield Block (6) and Persistent Casting (6) [another 279 AAs]
Experience with the zone and how to pull the 80-90% in two pulls
Experience with lining up and using Hail of Arrows
No looting during the 4-5 missions you run during the lesson burn

Once you've tried it, you can report back on how long it took you to be able to reach even 20 AAs.


Even though I could try these myself, I have not. I prefer to actually play the game and have fun when I have game time, vice spending it setting up and trying things like this.



Gorse

[Stewwy]

Apologies to the OP

[Gorse]

it wasn't directed at your response, it was specifically to the claim from Krrak and the general perception. Your point is no better, and calls for a nerf. You claim that it is not being used as intended, when clearly it is. It is not using a flaw or preventing something from happening and it is not game changing. It is plain class hate and spreading ill will.



As for the start of your reply, it shows how little you understand of the concept of what is required to make the "easy 25+ AA in a 30 minute burn".

1. If AAs are no problem, why are you crying about a way for someone else to make AAs?

2. You will want the Rank II version (for the extra duration which is obvious for anyone with a clue), which means faction farming, not just a few orum, otherwise you could justbuy in the bazaar, which is why I listed it in the first place, but wait you seem to know it all, and still missed the point.

3. You have to start and end multiple instances. I know I stated that, but you prefer to be argumentative. Unless you have patient friends that will sit at your beck and call and respond immediately each time you are dumping the mission and will hail and start the mission over each time it is needed, you have to have access to multiple accounts, so you can start them yourself, without having to run back and forth. [Pro Tip for the slow: If you cannot restart the missions you will not have enough mobs to kill to achieve the number of AAs claimed]

4 and 5. Chain class HP and AC are no where close the plate class, a fact you would know if you played one. Sure the SoD gear will help a lot, and is strongly recommended, have fun farming it.

6. Until you have tried and understand how it works, you really don't have a clue. But please, give it a try.

7. /sigh. The point is it is NOT trivial. Train pulling and placement tactics take a lot of effort. Effort that is required to master, otherwise you won't come close to the your "easy" claim number of AAs.

8. Again proof that you have no clue. Sure the corpses will still be there in your fifth instance, but if you try to take the time to loot throughout, you won't get anywhere near the "easy" number of AAs you claim.


Try it and see or not, your call, but do try to stop with the class hate.



Gorse

[Stewwy]

Apologies to the OP

[Gorse]

Originally Posted by Stewwy

LOL you're a funny guy. You say you haven't done it but YOU'RE the expert? Why are you the expert? Probably because you've played a Ranger and know your class. THIS is my point entirely. What you describe above would be VERY difficult if you had never played the class, but my point was that ANY multi-year played Ranger would have a MUCH easier time because of experience with the class. You are just laughingly over defending something that you know is being used improperly. I don't hate rangers. I was just pointing out that this AA COULD, not is, but COULD be viewed by SOE as one of those long standing items that is not being used as intdned, and MIGHT be nerfed. yes i said 5-6 posts above that it should be nerfed, and you're right, that was wrong. That is for SOE to decide. If SOE looks at it and says it's being used as intended then I don't have a problem with it at all. Seriously.

I was indicating that I do not and have not set up for, not attempted to try the 20+ AA burns, but like anyone competent and wanting to learn more about their class I do read class boards (Outrider is pretty much all that is left of the ranger boards still dedicated to EQ related information) and practice those tactics, so I know how to use them when needed.

I also acknowledge the point you wanted to address about ‘not having a problem with headshot”, but I interpret the discussion as an argument for it to happen. I also feel that Sony does not have a problem with it (or it would have been addressed) and does not need discussion.

I also disagree with your principle assumptions. This does not apply to the long term, class aware rangers, as they understand the issues and few use this tactic for farming AAs. Most of the rangers that are capable of performing this either have a large number of AAs or would much prefer (as do I) to group and have fun with friends/guildies, rather than repetitious and dangerous activities. The point is that the established rangers are not the people that need a detailed list explained to them.

The initial list and the follow-up are there to address and refute the initial argument / myth that it is simple / easy for any ranger to bang out 20+ AAs in a 30 minute Lesson of the Devoted burn. There is no hatred / angst / or defensiveness beyond making that point clear. It is not a simple, easy, or safe way to try to farm that many AAs in that short of time (for any class).

Originally Posted by Stewwy

My point was that essentially if you are starting from scratch as a Ranger and have never played one, then yes it would be very difficult to learn how to do this and it would take time. However, my answers above were assuming the following:
NOTE: I won't be calling you ignorant or a hater like you did me.

And yet you infer it. The ignorance needed to be addressed because it means you (and despite what you might think otherwise, I’ll assume a competent player) did not understand (thus were ignorant to) what was needed. It was easy to see that you were making assumptions based on incorrect information, yet try to refute the straight forward facts I provided.

Is “class hate” / “hater” the right terminology? It seemed appropriate. You attacked a non-confrontational straightforward, factual post (that is easily verifiable) and flat out called it false (lies dare we say) and attempted to contradict (with erroneous or incorrect responses) the statements (statement, not claims). Yes, I think the call was appropriate.

Originally Posted by Stewwy

#1 - Ranger IS level 85 with 800 AA's - spin it like this is rare, but it isn't at all.
#2 - 3500AC unbuffed is nothing - In chain 3500 AC is nothing, period. My mostly group geared monk has 3800 AC unbuffed in leather.
#3 - Actually, I wasn't being argumentative. I missed the forest for the trees. You made a big deal about needing multiple accounts, so that's what I responded to. I completely missed the part where you said it took multiple instances. But for "arguments" sake let's just assume the individual ranger has access to multiple accounts or just access to one extra account (person + merc). And let's not pretend this is rare either. I don't know of a single person in my guild that doesn't have personally or have access to multiple accounts.
#4 n #5- You have got to be kidding me. Farming and getting stuff is part of the game. All you have to do is keep an eye on your server general channel and you can loot for free tons of upgrades for no work whatsoever. Sure you have to fight for essences, but heck that's what group progression is about. Again, we're not talknig about some noob starting a level 1 ranger and trying to do this in a couple weeks. We're talking about long play time individuals, who have played their toons for years doing this, which represents the majority of the EQ community. A note about the Orux: You can do the Thalassius missions for over 100 Orux a pop per person. You need ~ 2100 Orux to get to ally. At 3 missions a night (that take less than an hour each) you can go from dubious to ally in 7 days, while getting a bunch of EXP. Of course this would be difficult for anyone that is 100% self reliant with no friends and no guild, but again that is not the reality of the game we play.
#6 n #7 - I said it would take practice, and again I'm assuming the Ranger has experience playing his character and game and other instances similar to the one the gnome expedition is in. Are these improper assumtions? Are you suggesting that most ranger at lvl 85 have never used HoA or been in this instance or the Hive in general? Or never pulled a train to wipe out with Weaponshield? I have pulled trains to kill with riposte discipline in many zones. It can go horribly bad, and takes practice, and isn't trivial. My bad for saying it was trivial. You're right. But if you've been playing the class for years, you already have built up an experience base to pull from. How many lvl 85 rangers with 800 AA's do you think haven't pulled a train somewhere and wiped it out with WS or HoA just for fun? Dern few I'd say. If a Ranger has been playing for years, which most have, then they likely already have some experience pullnig trains and with the AA and how to use it, again they aren't starting from scratch which you unrealistically propose.
#8 - No clue eh? You're right. So a Ranger can clean out 5 instances of the gnome mission in 30 minutes, if done right? Yeah that seems like good balance to me. You're right I had no clue this was the case. Sounds like a fully in balance AA to me being used for it's intended purpose. Gotcha!

Sidenote: Look at our responses to each other. Who's doing the hating? Look in the mirror please.

I will conceed the following to you:
You are 100% correct in your assessment of difficulty if the person trying to do this from today represents the following:
#1 - Never played a Ranger
#2 - Starts today from day 1
#3 - Has no support from friends or guildmembers whatsoever.

If all the above is correct then yes the picture you paint is probably accurate, however, my statements were based on an experienced Ranger trying this.

Finally, I'll state again that I AM NOT calling for a nerf. (see what I said above in this post about being wrong when I casually suggested this AA should be nerfed) I have stated and will continue to say, don't be surprised if this ends up in the pile of "Not being used as intended" like the other items I mentioned in a previous post above. Most of the items on the "Not being used as intended list" that got changed were done with community input. Look at the SK HT nerf where it doesn't reset with death now. That has been around longer than the HoA AA, and it got changed. Nothnig is sacred or safe if SOE deems it out of balance.

Finally, I find your knee jerk defense and over reaction quite amusing. And note I've stated where I was wrong. Nothing bad about being incorrect. It's how we learn. Thanks for correcting me on the 1-2 times I mispoke, but I stand by everything else.

I won’t refute line by line but I will make a few comments and try to keep them in the same order for context/people trying to follow along.

3500 AC unbuffed was very significant for me and even now, I still barely buff past 4K. (and I’m sitting at just over 2250 AAs and a character with 400+ days played over the course of nearly ten years) as a non-raiding type. (I do raid old content with a group of 30 people 2-3 times per month on a zero commitment bases. Is non-raider right? Maybe infrequent raider? How about non-current content raider? Casual raider? Choose what you like). The point is, sure for a raider 4K is nothing, but for the type of player that would use this tactic to farm AAs it typically is very significant. (This goes the same for the TBS missions).

I’ll agree that 2+ accounts is not uncommon, but the average player that wants to make a ranger to jump on the headshot EXP train and actually thinks that making 20+ AAs every run, may not understand that one of the requirements will be having access to and ability to run a second account, so it was included on my list.

Back to the TBS missions and assumptions for a minute. Let’s assume for a moment your numbers are correct and that said player is capable of completing a 100 Orux mission as stated. This is again where we both have different assumptions. Your assumption is 3 times per night every night for a week. Even at one hour per completion you are talking 21 hours of play time and all of it totally dedicated to grinding old content. I claim you assume very high, perhaps mine is a lot lower, but (sadly) so is my play time and I haven’t logged 20 hours in the past month. I believe even a month is trivializing, but I’d say doable with current levels against said content. I do not think 20+ hours of grinding is trivial (but certainly doable).

If you know how to use it and get it activated in time, Weaponshield will help with one of the pulls, good luck on the other nine. (Assumption is that you master the tactic of pulling 40-45% of the zone on each of the two pulls. And no, I did not say clear the zones, you don’t have time to try chase them all down, you are merely pulling as many as you can as quickly as you can, clearing 80-90% of the zone on the two pulls is what is reported in the threads on the boards previously indicated).

As for assumptions: #1. I disagree to some degree. The player needs to become very familiar (not just understand) with the tools and the tactics. There is a steep learning curve, and some folks just don’t get it. #2. Again I disagree to some degree. The ranger needs to be brought up to current/near current high end group content. #3. I again disagree. I think assistance is required to get set up to even be able to attempt this, but I think these are back to the basic assumption differences. I will concede it all could be done by a single person if they have access (and can bot) a second account (but it will take a lot of time).

As for the changes to FD: it was not a nerf, because it ended an exploit. The ability to die without consequence (within the instance) allowed the “Harm Touch, die and rez” tactic to trivial events that produced equipment as good as top tier raid equipment. That is not a nerf, it is needed for game balance.

Headshot farming EXP is not game changing, even for the few folks capable of achieving 20+ AAs in a 30 minute burn. Calling for, hinting that it should be, or inferring changes should happen is calling for a nerf and I called it out. I acknowledge and even see that you say you should not call for a nerf, but I also see in the next sentence where you infer that it should (“don’t be surprised”) happen.


I do look in the mirror. I usually write and re-write multiple times to make sure my posts are stating the point intended. The only thing I’ve been defensive about is when factual information was called untrue (lies). And I have a thing about being called a liar.


Finally, as I indicated at the start of my previous post, the list was directed at Krrak and provided for the edification of anyone else that did not know and understand that it’s not just a simple thing that any ranger can just run off and do. This post and the previous is to ensure the clarity of the list and addressing the points there in.



Gorse

[Stewwy]

Apologies to the OP.

[Stewwy]

To the OP.

After a little thinking, I have decided to remove my posts from this thread. The pointless diatribe between Goprse and myself was a very unecessary and pointless hijack and I apologize.

[Gorse]

Bah, no need to delete, even if we did end up hijack the thread. I don't think it is pointless from either point of view and let's people help formulate their own opinions.


Gorse

P.S. as a funny asside, I mis-read that typo as Gorpse as in a Gorse corpse. I'll have to use that.