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  • Blue Diamond armors - current state and shortcomings

    Now that it has been almost a year since the introduction of the Blue Diamond armors, I've decided to inventorize the current state and see what sloppiness is still lingering. While some things have changed, the changes have only been minor. Below is the data I have collected, which is as accurate as I could find it.

    When looking at all sets for all races, it is possible to derive a "basic template" for these Blue Diamond armors from which the rest has been derived. This is most clearly seen in the various un-imbued sets that are around, since they are the template. This template is as follows (item slot: Silk AC, Leather AC, Chain AC, Plate AC*, base stat, HP/Mana I, HP/Mana II, HP III)

    Face: 5, 8, 10, 12, +5 AGI, 30/30, 45/15, 60
    Neck: 3, 6, 11, 14, +5 AGI, 25/25, 40/10, 50
    Wrist: 6, 9, 12, 25, +5 SvAll, 30/30, 45/15, 55/50**
    Arms: 7, 11, 16, 26, -, 30/30, 60/20***, 60
    Head: 7, 9, 17, 25, +5 INT, 30/30, 45/15, 60
    Feet: 7, 9, 16, 30, +5 DEX, 30/30, 45/15, 60
    Waist: 4, 10, 15, 19, +5 WIS, 40/40, 60/20, 80
    Shoulders: 6, 8, 15, 20, +5 DEX, 30/30, 45/15, 60
    Hands: 6, 9, 12, 24, +5 DEX, 25/25, 35/15, 50
    Legs: 10, 15, 22, 40, -, 40/40, 60/20, 80
    Back: 8, 11, 14, 16, +5 WIS, 40/40, 60/20, 80
    Chest: 15, 21, 30, 51, +5 STA, 40/40, 60/20, 80

    Notes on Template:
    HP/Mana I : This is the "default" distribution for HP/Mana on the items
    HP/Mana II : This is the distribution of HP/Mana on Ogre Imbued Plate armor
    HP III : This is the distribution of HP on Fierce Heraldic and Helanic Tundra plate armor
    * : Ogre Plate armor has +2 AC on all pieces
    ** : 55 for Fierce Heraldic, 50 for Helanic Tundra
    *** : Someone at Verant/SOE can't count; while the three different distributions always add up to the same, this particular instance comes out 20 too high (or, which would be better, the rest 20 too low)

    Based on this generic Template, it's possible to closely examine each of the sets and find statistics on each of the sets - and through these statistics, also the flaws and shortcomings of each set. I will only name the slot where the item is equiped, to circumvent the different names (Gorget, Collar, Neckguard, etc ... all go on the Neck Slot for instance). Of course, there is nothing known about possible errors on items that have not been reported yet anywhere.

    HUMAN

    No Imbued stats over the Template:

    Luminant Heraldic:
    - Waist
    - Hands

    Fierce Heraldic:
    - Face
    - Neck
    - Head

    Missing base stats from the Template after Imbue:

    Fierce Heraldic:
    - Waist
    - Back

    Items still missing/unreported/uncrafted:

    Hateful Heraldic:
    - Waist
    - Back

    Notes:

    None

    ERUDITE

    No Imbued stats over the Template:

    Fulvous Steelweave:
    - Waist

    Neriad's Steelweave:
    - Face
    - Neck
    - Head
    - Waist
    - Shoulders

    Missing base stats from the Template after Imbue:

    Serene Woven Platinum:
    - Waist
    - Back

    Fulvous Woven Platinum:
    - Waist
    - Back

    Neriad's Woven Platinum:
    - Waist
    - Back

    Items still missing/unreported/uncrafted:

    None

    Notes:

    None

    HIGH ELF

    No Imbued stats over the Template:

    None

    Missing base stats from the Template after Imbue:

    None

    Items still missing/unreported/uncrafted:

    Artkeeper's Mithril chain:
    - Face
    - Shoulders

    Notes:

    None

    BARBARIAN

    No Imbued stats over the Template:

    Black Lace-boned Leather:
    - Neck
    - Feet

    Artificer's Ringmail:
    - Feet
    - Waist

    Helanic Tundra Plate:
    - Neck
    - Head
    - Shoulders
    - Hands

    Missing base stats from the Template after Imbue:

    Black Lace-boned Leather:
    - Head

    Artificer's Ringmail:
    - Face
    - Head

    Items still missing/unreported/uncrafted:

    Black Lace-boned Leather:
    - Waist

    Notes:

    None

    DWARF

    No Imbued stats over the Template:

    Underfoot Chainmail:
    - Neck
    - Feet
    - Waist
    - Shoulders
    - Hands

    Mischievous Chainmail:
    - Feet
    - Hands

    Underfoot Plate:
    - Neck
    - Feet
    - Waist
    - Hands

    Missing base stats from the Template after Imbue:

    Brellium Chainmail:
    - Face (as in the EQTrader's database)

    Underfoot Chainmail:
    - Face
    - Head

    Mischievous Chainmail:
    - Face
    - Head
    - Waist

    Items still missing/unreported/uncrafted:

    Underfoot Chainmail:
    - Back

    Mischievous Chainmail:
    - Neck
    - Shoulders
    - Back

    Notes:

    Both Underfoot Chainmail and Mischievous Chainmail are Rogue-only. As such, they should not feature any mana and be on the same HP distribution table as the Fierce Heraldic armor and Helanic Tundra armor. However, they are not.

    Underfoot Chainmail has the same HP as the "default" distribution, only the mana has been slashed off (the bracer is the exception here, which does feature 55 HPs, according to the correct HP table for melees). Mischievous Chainmail still sports the Mana that it has from the "default" distribution, which it has as opposed to a pure melee distribution.

    GNOME

    No Imbued stats over the Template:

    Clockwork Shadowwalker armor:
    - Feet

    Missing base stats from the Template after Imbue:

    Clockwork Shadowwalker armor:
    - Helm

    Clockwork Observer armor:
    - Feet

    Items still missing/unreported/uncrafted:

    None

    Notes:

    These two suits are not full suits, but only features the seven visible pieces.

    Like with the Dwarven Chainmail, the Clockwork Shadowwalker armor has the "default" HP/Mana distribution, but with the mana slashed off, even though this suit is usable by Clerics, Shadowknights and Paladins.

    HALFLING

    No Imbued stats over the Template:

    Stormreapers Chainwoven armor:
    - Neck
    - Wrist
    - Feet
    - Hands

    Stormreapers Steelwoven armor:
    - Wrist
    - Head

    Missing base stats from the Template after Imbue:

    Stormreapers Boned Leather:
    - Head

    Stormreapers Chainwoven armor:
    - Face
    - Head

    Items still missing/unreported/uncrafted:

    None

    Notes:

    None

    IKSAR

    Only one armor set, Fearsome Skyiron

    No Imbued stats over the Template:
    - Neck
    - Feet
    - Waist
    - Hands

    Missing base stats from the Template after Imbue:
    - Face

    Items still missing/unreported/uncrafted:

    None

    Notes:

    This line of armor is considered Chainmail for AC.

    WOOD ELF

    No Imbued stats over the Template:

    Tunarean Scout chain:
    - Neck
    - Feet
    - Waist
    - Shoulders
    - Hands

    Missing base stats from the Template after Imbue:

    Tunarean Soldier leather:
    - Head

    Tunarean Scout chain:
    - Face
    - Head

    Items still missing/unreported/uncrafted:

    None

    Notes:

    None

    DARK ELF

    No Imbued stats over the Template:

    Dark Prince Sovereign chain:
    - Head

    Missing base stats from the Template after Imbue:

    None

    Items still missing/unreported/uncrafted:

    Teir'Dal Regent Plate:
    - Back

    Notes:

    None

    OGRE

    No Imbued stats over the Template:

    Fulvous Darksplint:
    - Waist
    - Shoulders

    Fulvous Darkscale:
    - Face
    - Waist

    Crimson Darkscale:
    - Face
    - Neck
    - Wrist
    - Head
    - Feet
    - Waist
    - Shoulders
    - Hands

    Blackened Darkscale:
    - Face
    - Neck
    - Wrist
    - Head
    - Feet
    - Hands

    Missing base stats from the Template after Imbue:

    Fulvous Darksplint:
    - Face

    Crimson Darksplint:
    - Face
    - Head

    Blackened Darksplint:
    - Face

    Items still missing/unreported/uncrafted:

    Fulvous Darksplint:
    - Back

    Blackened Darksplint:
    - Neck
    - Shoulders
    - Hands

    Blackened Darkscale:
    - Waist
    - Back

    Notes:

    Ogre Plate armor features +2 AC on all pieces over the standard Plate AC values given in the Template above. One could argue that this is the reason that the Crimson Darkscale and Blackened Darkscale armors are missing so many Imbued Stats over the Template, but the Fulvous Darkscale armor features plenty of extra stats, so that can't be the thought behind the missing stats.

    Overall roundup: Stats total for a full suit of each set (counting 2 Bracers):

    Radiant Heraldic: +135
    Luminant Heraldic: +120 (two pieces have no Imbued stats)
    Dragonkin Heraldic: +130
    Thunderous Heraldic: +120
    Salubrious Heraldic: +130
    Hateful Heraldic: +110 (two pieces still need to be reported)
    Fierce Heraldic: +105 (missing +10 from Base stats, three pieces have no Imbued stats)
    Fetid Heraldic: +125

    Serene Woven Platinum: +135 (missing +10 from Base Stats)
    Fulvous Woven Platinum: +130 (missing +10 from Base Stats)
    Neriad's Woven Platinum: +135 (missing +10 from Base Stats)
    Serene Steelweave: +125
    Fulvous Steelweave: +120 (one piece has no Imbued stats)
    Neriad's Steelweave: +105 (five pieces have no Imbued stats)

    Blessed Artkeeper's Chain: +130
    Blessed Full Mithril Plate: +130

    Black Lace-boned Leather: +120 (two pieces have no Imbued stats, missing +5 from Base Stats and one piece still needs to be reported)
    Artificer's Ringmail: +105 (missing +10 from Base Stats and two pieces have no Imbued stats)
    Helanic Tundra Plate: +105 (four pieces have no Imbued Stats)

    Underfoot Chainmail: +120 (five pieces have no Imbued Stats, missing +10 from Base Stats and one piece still needs to be reported)
    Mischievous Chainmail: +120 (two pieces have no Imbued Stats, missing +15 from Base Stats and three pieces still need to be reported)
    Underfoot Platemail: +105 (four pieces have no Imbued Stats)
    Mischievous Platemail: +130

    Stormreapers Boned Leather: +135 (missing +5 from Base Stats)
    Stormreapers Chainwoven armor: +105 (four pieces have no Imbued stats, missing +10 from Base Stats)
    Stormreapers Steelwoven armor: +110 (two pieces have no Imbued Stats)

    Fearsome Skyiron armor: +110 (four pieces have no Imbued Stats and missing +5 from Base Stats)

    Clockwork Shadowwalker armor: +70 (one piece has no Imbued Stats and missing +5 from Base Stats. Also note that this suit has visible pieces ONLY)
    Clockwork Observer armor: +105 (missing +5 from Base Stats. Also note that this suit has visible pieces ONLY)

    Tunarean Soldier Leather: +135 (missing +5 from Base Stats)
    Tunarean Scout Chain: +105 (five pieces have no Imbued Stats and missing +10 from Base Stats)

    Dark Prince Sovereign Chain: +125 (one piece has no Imbued Stats)
    Dark Prince Regent Plate: +135

    Fulvous Darksplint: +105 (two items have no Imbued Stats, missing +5 from Base Stats and one item still has to be reported)
    Crimson Darksplint: +120 (missing +10 from Base Stats)
    Blackened Darksplint: +110 (missing +5 from Base Stats and three items still have to be reported)
    Fulvous Darkscale: +125 (two items have no Imbued Stats)
    Crimson Darkscale: +95 (eight items have no Imbued Stats)
    Blackened Darkscale: +90 (six pieces have no Imbued Stats and two pieces still need to be reported)

    General conclusion from my side: I think that this series of Blue Diamond armors has been implemented somewhat careless. Especially the Dwarven Chainmails and the Ogre armors appear very, very sloppy. It's sad that now, almost after a year, these sets still deviate on such a massive scale from one another ... when looking through the amount of added stats, balance between the sets is not readily apparent.

    Edit: Updated final listing to show full stat gain from a full suit, as well as adding the Dwarven Plate stat add that I had forgotten to list before.

    Edit II: Somehow overlooked the Plate version of the Gnome armor. Added it to the above now.

    Kaysha Soulsinger
    Member of the 1750 club since October 13th 2004
    True strength is not a measure of the body, it's a measure of the soul

  • #2
    Well, what about the fact that Gnome armour not only has stats, but effects as well?

    Yeah, it's nice that Gnomre armour is designed to be equally good for Gnome SKs & Cleric/Paladins, but why isn't High Elven armour equally good for Paladins/Clerics and Bards? Why isn't Dark Elven armour equally good for Clerics and SKs?

    More to the point, what about the class/race combos that are still left out in the cold?

    You did a good job of compiling all this, but you didn't give any suggestions or possible solutions.
    Angelsyn Whitewings, Cleric of Tunare for 66! Seasons.
    Grandmistress Smith - 300, Grandmistress Tailor - 300, Potter - 300, Jeweler - 300, Brewer - 200, Baker - 200, Fletcher - 200, Fisherwoman - 169
    Keyne Falconer, Paladin of Erollisi Marr for 66 Seasons.
    Grandmistress Baker - 300, Grandmistress Blacksmith - 300, Potter - 200, Brewer - 139, Tailor - 91

    Comment


    • #3
      Lol, I'm just the herald ... not the designer.

      If it were up to me, I'd take a big shovel and start digging into this pile. I think I would start to make sure all suits (except the Gnome sets which are visible) have a stat total adding up to +135 (of which +45 is from the Base Stats - they should be solid on all sets out there). This means a large number of sets would get additional stats, some would be left as they are now, and a minor few would lose 5 on stats.

      The Gnome sets need special attention because they aren't full. As for them having effects as well as stats, I think that's ok. They aren't free (10 charges and need a Class V Mana Battery to recharge) and they are in line with what Gnomes could make before.

      What they should not have done, however, was cram so many stats onto so little pieces, on the Observer armor. It seems they said "oh, each set has about +100 to +135 to stats, so Observer armor should too!" and then assigned them the stats they have now, totally oblivious of the fact that the Gnome set only has 7 pieces as opposed to the 12 of the others.

      Kaysha Soulsinger
      Member of the 1750 club since October 13th 2004
      True strength is not a measure of the body, it's a measure of the soul

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Angelsyn
        You did a good job of compiling all this, but you didn't give any suggestions or possible solutions.
        I took that to be the point of the post -- a compilation of information. As such, I found it to be very informative. It actually answered several questions I'd been mulling over for a while.

        Kibbitzing over the value of that information is left up to others.
        Sir KyrosKrane Sylvanblade
        Master Artisan (300 + GM Trophy in all) of Luclin (Veeshan)
        Master Fisherman (200) and possibly Drunk (2xx + 20%), not sober enough to tell!
        Lightbringer, Redeemer, and Valiant servant of Erollisi Marr

        Comment


        • #5
          The gnome armor has effects that far outweigh a lot of the missing stats:
          +30 STR, +30 DEX, summon pet weapon, see invis, SOW, 40% haste (spell, not item, like eyepatch) and Invis. Im pretty sure the sow and invis are 2 items that the gnome clerics just love. =)
          Splunge the Insane - Former Test Server Inmate
          Splunge (Reborn) - Hunter of Lightbringer

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          • #6
            Thanks for the compilation and initial analysis.

            One thing still missing is a Bristlebane imbue for bard-wearable plate (Mischevious Heraldic, perhaps?) There's many of us about - I would suspect that a good 50% or more of bard mains are BB-worshippers.

            For that matter, can't the halflings be Bristlebane paladins? They're not able to wear the Michevious plate the dwarves can make...

            I suspect there are similar holes elsewhere in the spectrum.

            Amerygn
            Amerygn D'Arundel
            Virtuoso and Master Tradeself
            Altruistic Valorians
            Morell-Thule

            Comment


            • #7
              Don't forget the lack of an agnostic version of the Ogre Darksplint/Darkscale armors. More than a few agnostic ogre warriors left out there.
              Garshok
              95th Dreadlord, Povar-Quellious, 300 Ogre Grand Master Smith, 300 all skills
              (glad the climb to 300 is finally over)

              Zopharr
              95th Priest of Brell, Povar-Quellious, 300 Dwarven Grand Master Smith, 300 all skills
              (holds his 15% smithing trophy in his off hand and pretends to dual-wield - and hopes the Holy Dirt of Brell he's carried for twelve years will have a use in the new expansion)

              Rishathra
              95th Shaman of Inny, Povar-Quellious, 300 Troll Grand Master Smith
              (got so tired of looking for a troll smith for armor that I made one)

              Marzanna
              95th Necromancer, Povar-Quellious, 300 Tinker - Tailor
              (still working on Solder, Spy)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by AmerygnMT
                Thanks for the compilation and initial analysis.

                One thing still missing is a Bristlebane imbue for bard-wearable plate (Mischevious Heraldic, perhaps?) There's many of us about - I would suspect that a good 50% or more of bard mains are BB-worshippers.

                For that matter, can't the halflings be Bristlebane paladins? They're not able to wear the Michevious plate the dwarves can make...

                I suspect there are similar holes elsewhere in the spectrum.

                Amerygn
                All halfling paladins worship Karana.

                All halfling tailors (230+) can Make Stormreaper Plate Armor. :-)

                -Lilosh
                Venerable Noishpa Taltos , Planar Druid, Educated Halfling, and GM Baker.
                President and Founder of the Loudmouthed Sarcastic Halflings Society
                Also, Smalltim

                So take the fact of having a dirty mind as proof that you are world-savvy; it's not a flaw, it's an asset, if nothing else, it's a defense - Sanna

                Comment


                • #9
                  I didn't list shortcoming of entire missing sets or anything ... again, my post was meant purely informative as to the current state of the armors.

                  If I were to be put in charge for fleshing out any errors, inconsistencies and flaws, there would be a whole lot more work involved (yes, this would include the introduction of sets for Race/Class/Deity combo's that currently have none, but should have one).

                  Kaysha Soulsinger
                  Member of the 1750 club since October 13th 2004
                  True strength is not a measure of the body, it's a measure of the soul

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Kaysha Soulsinger
                    The Gnome sets need special attention because they aren't full. As for them having effects as well as stats, I think that's ok. They aren't free (10 charges and need a Class V Mana Battery to recharge) and they are in line with what Gnomes could make before.

                    What they should not have done, however, was cram so many stats onto so little pieces, on the Observer armor. It seems they said "oh, each set has about +100 to +135 to stats, so Observer armor should too!" and then assigned them the stats they have now, totally oblivious of the fact that the Gnome set only has 7 pieces as opposed to the 12 of the others.
                    The only reason it seems that the Gnome Armour has a ton of stats crammed into relatively few pieces is because it was specifically made to be good for both SKs and Clerics/Paladins.

                    Which is why every plate set that can be worn by Clerics/Paladins as well as SKs/Bards (virtually every set in the game except the Tribunal Plate & Rallos Plate) should have an equal amount of +Int and +Wis on the pieces.

                    Remember, a Bard's Mana Pool is calculated from their Int.
                    Angelsyn Whitewings, Cleric of Tunare for 66! Seasons.
                    Grandmistress Smith - 300, Grandmistress Tailor - 300, Potter - 300, Jeweler - 300, Brewer - 200, Baker - 200, Fletcher - 200, Fisherwoman - 169
                    Keyne Falconer, Paladin of Erollisi Marr for 66 Seasons.
                    Grandmistress Baker - 300, Grandmistress Blacksmith - 300, Potter - 200, Brewer - 139, Tailor - 91

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I would rather make a separation, really. Right now the armor can be made using BOTH an Imbued Black Sapphire, AND an Imbued Ruby. Just make it so that the IBS armor yields armor with INT and the IR yields armor with WIS.

                      Something similar should be done for armors from Iksars and Inkies, for instance.

                      Kaysha Soulsinger
                      Member of the 1750 club since October 13th 2004
                      True strength is not a measure of the body, it's a measure of the soul

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by AmerygnMT
                        One thing still missing is a Bristlebane imbue for bard-wearable plate (Mischevious Heraldic, perhaps?) There's many of us about - I would suspect that a good 50% or more of bard mains are BB-worshippers.
                        While I would personally find this heartening, I was always under the impression that the most popular deity choice for bards was Veeshan (who are covered by the dragonkin heraldic line). I'd be curious to see what the true answer is.

                        This doesn't make your point any less valid, of course. And, as Lilosh noted, the distribution of deities for the new halfling classes is sort of strange, especially for halfling paladins, who can only follow Karana, but whose patron class can only follow Bristlebane. (Are gnome paladins Brell-only?)
                        [53 Vicar] Frabbens Donutbringer (Halfling) <Emerald Alliance>, Lanys T'Vyl
                        Grandmaster chef of Bristlebane; destitute master tailor (190)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Kaysha Soulsinger
                          I would rather make a separation, really. Right now the armor can be made using BOTH an Imbued Black Sapphire, AND an Imbued Ruby. Just make it so that the IBS armor yields armor with INT and the IR yields armor with WIS.

                          Something similar should be done for armors from Iksars and Inkies, for instance.
                          All dark elves clerics worship Innoruuk. So do the shadowknights. You proposing giving shadowknights their own imbue? Otherwise, Angel's point remains valid.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Frabbens
                            (Are gnome paladins Brell-only?)
                            I would wager that they are.

                            I can't see a Gnomish Paladin of Bristlebane!

                            -Lilosh
                            Venerable Noishpa Taltos , Planar Druid, Educated Halfling, and GM Baker.
                            President and Founder of the Loudmouthed Sarcastic Halflings Society
                            Also, Smalltim

                            So take the fact of having a dirty mind as proof that you are world-savvy; it's not a flaw, it's an asset, if nothing else, it's a defense - Sanna

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I've noticed some disparities between the "Old Cultural" and the BD cultural in terms of who can where what. The old stuff has some races listed as able to wear diety specific armor of dieties not worshipped by their race but the BD does not. And I so wanted to make a High Elf Paladin of Karana!

                              The differences in the BD armor are not as bad as the older cultural but still need to be addressed.
                              Pottery 159 Tailoring 188 Brewing 170 Baking 178 Smithing 205 Alchemy 114, Fishing 35, JC 15, Fletching 0

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