Hopes for Underfoot

[saum]

With the upcomming release of UF and the following statement on the SOE site just wanted to start a thread on what we tradskillers are hoping for in UF

• Master Tradeskilling – Players can create powerful new weapons, armor and more with thousands of new recipes

Give us another coldain prayer shawl type quest
The ring and shawl quests were some of the best things going back in the day. I would love to see that concept reinvented

New recipes that dont have impossible to get components and actually might be usefull to players

Drinks that scale with food !!
would be nice to have a new line of drinks that have some decent HP/Mana on them

New AA's
im hoping for a new run of AA's that make tradeskilling more interesting

Well thats just a few of my thoughts lets here yours

[furioso]

There is a shawl quest comming. Shawl 1.5 for groupers and 2.0 for raiders. (Or would that be 8.5 and 9.0?) There is a thirteen page thread over on the Sony boards so this is not NDA stuff. Here is the link. If I recall correctly Ngreth said the shawl would:

- Require the quester to have unmod 300 in all seven main tradeskills
- Be for all classes, not just casters and priests
- Convert between sholder item to sholder augment, absolutly not both at the same time
- Require the Blessed Coldain Prayer Shawl, there is not and absolutly never will be a bypass pre-quest
- Raid shawl would be the best sholder item in game and require an always drop item from the UF expansion final boss, there is not and never will be a way to get the final shawl without raiding

There is no quest for the ring! As the shawl has Brell lore and the expansion is connected to Brell there is good reason for a shawl 9. The ring has no connection to Brell and thus will NOT be upgraded in this expansion.

[Aldier]

Just to note the shawl will be set up similar to Eron's where there are 7 quests, one focusing on each tradeskill and then a final 8th quest for the raid component.

So that would make it Shawl 15 (group) and 16 (raid)

[Aldier]

With the upcomming release of UF and the following statement on the SOE site just wanted to start a thread on what we tradskillers are hoping for in UF

• Master Tradeskilling – Players can create powerful new weapons, armor and more with thousands of new recipes

Give us another coldain prayer shawl type quest
The ring and shawl quests were some of the best things going back in the day. I would love to see that concept reinvented

New recipes that dont have impossible to get components and actually might be usefull to players

Drinks that scale with food !!
would be nice to have a new line of drinks that have some decent HP/Mana on them

New AA's
im hoping for a new run of AA's that make tradeskilling more interesting

Well thats just a few of my thoughts lets here yours

There are over 1000 recipes because there is a new set of cultural armor that will include base armor recipes, symbol recipes, group seal recipes, and raid seal recipes. Info on this is that it will be same style but is getting reset and rebalanced statwise. Will not interface with old cultural armor pieces.

I do not know if the new armor will have impossible to obtain drops but I think that Ngreth is trending towards the concepts of CRDs where 1 universal expansion wide random drop is used in multiple tradeskills.

Would love some high stat drinks but to be honest, with hp/mana pools going as high as they are, is even 150 hp/mana really going to DO anything?

[furioso]

Would love some high stat drinks but to be honest, with hp/mana pools going as high as they are, is even 150 hp/mana really going to DO anything?

Somewhere deep in the muck that is the SOE boards is a discussion where Ngreth talks about wanting (NOT PLANNING) to somehow make food and drink work like powersourses. If that can somehow be implimented then food and drink HEMStats will increase to useful levels, but without it he will not improve food/drink. Too many people using one everlasting party platter by clicking iron rations to forcefeed. Maybe in 2010? /sigh

[Aldier]

Somewhere deep in the muck that is the SOE boards is a discussion where Ngreth talks about wanting (NOT PLANNING) to somehow make food and drink work like powersourses. If that can somehow be implimented then food and drink HEMStats will increase to useful levels, but without it he will not improve food/drink. Too many people using one everlasting party platter by clicking iron rations to forcefeed. Maybe in 2010? /sigh

Oh I agree and think a separate window with 2 buff slots, one for food, one for drink that grants a buff when you consume the food that provides the stats from the food (or drink) would also work. These buffs would not be lost upon death/rez and can't be removed (no debuffing food).

This would solve the ac problem on food/drink. This would also allow for some more creative effects. Drink this espresso = haste. for a little bit that degrades over time. Somehow I could even see alcohol tolerance being tied into this a little.

[AbyssalMage]

Great another tradeskill quest that requires me to have all 7 skills over 200 for me to even try. Lets get real, drop the requirement to 200 for all 7 skills, make the mobs semi-hard (something that requires a solid group at most) and a few (3 or less) a pick up raid in a open zone (i.e. non-instanced).

Make the trivials around 250 or 270, something not inpossible with a 200 skill, a 5% trophy, and AA's to boost your chance. If your doing better skill wise, awsome, still not a guaranteed success!

[Aldier]

Great another tradeskill quest that requires me to have all 7 skills over 200 for me to even try. Lets get real, drop the requirement to 200 for all 7 skills, make the mobs semi-hard (something that requires a solid group at most) and a few (3 or less) a pick up raid in a open zone (i.e. non-instanced).

Make the trivials around 250 or 270, something not inpossible with a 200 skill, a 5% trophy, and AA's to boost your chance. If your doing better skill wise, awsome, still not a guaranteed success!

It needs to be a challenging combine to make it worthwhile. The stats on an item in the skill range you are talking would be weaker than any SoD gear much less anything in UF and no one would bother making it.

[Konjure]

- Require the Blessed Coldain Prayer Shawl, there is not and absolutly never will be a bypass pre-quest

Omg! All these years without being able to delete it to save bank space will finally get rewarded!

Well, it was considered raid-stuff since walking the dwarf required atleast 3 groups and the fear of loosing it through script-bugs caused Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, and with all those memories I could never delete it.


(If you deleted it I'm sure there are some flags left they can check. Like if you summoned Dain to show it to him, which you could do once only, and other flags involved in the quest.)

[AbyssalMage]

It needs to be a challenging combine to make it worthwhile. The stats on an item in the skill range you are talking would be weaker than any SoD gear much less anything in UF and no one would bother making it.

The "challenge" should be in the drop or aquiring the pieces, not having the AA's to do the quest.

Even if you do aquire the pieces you are not guaranteed success.
The Prayer Shawel was open to everyone, granted the AA system we know today wasn't in use.

But the quest was doable by anyone, even those who where 300 Fletchers cause the challenge came in aquiring the drops. The hardest part was a Tailoring combine (forget, its been awhile) yet people who wheren't "tailor's" did the quest, and was one of the best, if not best, item for that slot for casters and hybrids (I think Tanks used something with more AC, didn't play a tank at this time so not positive).

This quest is targetted to a select few. Look back at the SoD and SoF exclusive quests...many people looked at them and kept on going for other things. Trophies are nice to have, but requiring the player base to spend AA's to simply do what the game was designed for, i.e. questing, is a slap in the player bases face.

Simply removing the requirement of having a 300 skill would be another option. Granted your chance of success may be lower than someone with 300, but the game is about questing, not how many AA's you have.

[Aldier]

The "challenge" should be in the drop or aquiring the pieces, not having the AA's to do the quest.

Even if you do aquire the pieces you are not guaranteed success.
The Prayer Shawel was open to everyone, granted the AA system we know today wasn't in use.

But the quest was doable by anyone, even those who where 300 Fletchers cause the challenge came in aquiring the drops. The hardest part was a Tailoring combine (forget, its been awhile) yet people who wheren't "tailor's" did the quest, and was one of the best, if not best, item for that slot for casters and hybrids (I think Tanks used something with more AC, didn't play a tank at this time so not positive).

This quest is targetted to a select few. Look back at the SoD and SoF exclusive quests...many people looked at them and kept on going for other things. Trophies are nice to have, but requiring the player base to spend AA's to simply do what the game was designed for, i.e. questing, is a slap in the player bases face.

Simply removing the requirement of having a 300 skill would be another option. Granted your chance of success may be lower than someone with 300, but the game is about questing, not how many AA's you have.

At a time when you could get 1 skill to 250 and the other 6 could only go to 200 and there were no AA, having a 200 trivial combine in shawl 6 when we did not have the tradeskill UI to tell us the exact trivial, we had to work them out from skilling up til we received the message it was trivial WAS the challenge not the drop rate. Granted you could farm 4, 5, 6, sets of combines and attempt over and over hoping to get lucky.

SoF Eron's required 250 in all tradeskills. Cultural armor has skill requirements to it. To make Elaborate is 275, Elegant 300. POP had locked tradeskill skill recipes. Aid Grimel required combines that you were a certain skill level to attempt. This is not a NEW concept.

The last tradeskill item required 250 in all skills and had 400 trivial combines.

The new one, the trivial are probably going to be over 400 based on trending upwards. There is no reason, imo, someone who is not a master at their craft should be able to create this masterpiece by farming enough pieces and "getting lucky".

300 skill requires you to spend 18 aa. Sorry if that seems OVERLY burdensome.

[saum]

I'm excited about that quest, ive turned my tradeskill jets on full speed trying to get to 300 in all catagories ! "I have such a looooong way to go though /sigh"

Oh and i don't know if its related but tradeskill supplies in the bazaar here on Emarr have nearly dried up completely.

[Shadrok]

Hurrah, a new shawl quest.

Sigh. I'll prolly never get the final drop, as I'm not in a high-end raiding guild. Still, something to shoot for ... if I ever finish Eron's <smile> (and the painful fletching skill).

[grosbras]

YA i love these TS quests !!! ... ok time to do the shawl quest for my main (was not so great for sk and i only did it on a wz alt). I destroyed the ringa long time ago anyway

[Nolrog]

Somewhere deep in the muck that is the SOE boards is a discussion where Ngreth talks about wanting (NOT PLANNING) to somehow make food and drink work like powersourses. If that can somehow be implimented then food and drink HEMStats will increase to useful levels, but without it he will not improve food/drink. Too many people using one everlasting party platter by clicking iron rations to forcefeed. Maybe in 2010? /sigh

It's no secret that Ngreth doesn't like the way that food/drink works in EQ. He likes the EQ2 method where you don't get the benefit until you consume the food, which prevents you from keeping that one best item indefinitely (by force feeding yourself iron rations or something.) It's also the primary reason he won't create better foods (until this is addressed.)

I don't know where this change is on the priority list, but if/when it comes, I won't be the least bit surprised.

[road dog]

omg you'd quit eq if you saw the bazaar on test ,,its barren no ts supplies at all

[pandax]

Great another tradeskill quest that requires me to have all 7 skills over 200 for me to even try. Lets get real, drop the requirement to 200 for all 7 skills, make the mobs semi-hard (something that requires a solid group at most) and a few (3 or less) a pick up raid in a open zone (i.e. non-instanced).

Make the trivials around 250 or 270, something not inpossible with a 200 skill, a 5% trophy, and AA's to boost your chance. If your doing better skill wise, awsome, still not a guaranteed success!

meh, first few levels should be sub 200.

Last combine should be 290 across the board

Those TS's aren't terribly hard to max out nowadays anyhow..... although I have yet to start archery, LOL.

[Ngreth Thergn]

Really. You are not going to be doing the shawl if you are not high enough level to easilly have the 18 AA's needed to get all your skills to 300.

I can consider it at 200... but really... it is about your character, in game, being an master tradeskiller... and it is water under the bridge at this point, being that requires that you have spent the 18 AA's

The shawl quest should be in the "second" phase release of Underfoot. (March or April)

The 7ths step results in a shawl better than any group item in the game, even better than the best group items in underfoot.

The 8th step... "Raid", is no longer even tradeskills... It is just to do a favor for brell, that will result in you being given a raid item. That favor is to bring the head of a particular adversary that happens to be a raid kill. So it is lore explanation behind proving that you are a raider capable of defeating the end raid of the expansion. This prof and your previous work on the shawl will give you the raid version of the item.

[Aldier]

No change to ac when swapping in Trail rations.

[Sharrien]

The 8th step... "Raid", is no longer even tradeskills... It is just to do a favor for brell, that will result in you being given a raid item. That favor is to bring the head of a particular adversary that happens to be a raid kill.

So, will just one drop per kill or multiples?

J/K! :P

[Ngreth Thergn]

No change to ac when swapping in Trail rations.

Sad Ogur

So, will just one drop per kill or multiples?

J/K! :P

:P

[AbyssalMage]

At a time when you could get 1 skill to 250 and the other 6 could only go to 200 and there were no AA, having a 200 trivial combine in shawl 6 when we did not have the tradeskill UI to tell us the exact trivial, we had to work them out from skilling up til we received the message it was trivial WAS the challenge not the drop rate. Granted you could farm 4, 5, 6, sets of combines and attempt over and over hoping to get lucky...

...300 skill requires you to spend 18 aa. Sorry if that seems OVERLY burdensome.

First..sorry for the delay to the response, RL got in the way and got distracted doing other things.

How is it challenging to "add a bunch of material" into a container and press combine...then read...you succeded/failed/can't raise your skill any further?

The challenge of the shawel was collecting the parts. Getting your tradeskills to a respectable level was more of an after thought so you didn't have to drag a group back to your camp to do it all over again. Heck, I remember bringing my containers to the camp simply because it was simpler to "know if I failed I needed another one." I "got lucky" on many of my combines, but I also put in my time at both the camps and at the TS containers. I also remember many of the drops weren't automatic and some parts were down right dangerouse to do solo.

Reading a screen that says...
"You increased your skill" followed by "You can't use this combine to get better" isn't a challenge, its just mind numbing. The same mind-numbness that you felt when you had to individually add every ingrediant into a container and hit combine for the 100th time. And if you forgot an ingrediant or put an extra ingrediant in, you got FAILURE. That isn't challenge...

Your right, 18 AA's isn't alot...I can knock that out in 2-3 days of casual playing.

But what should I sacrifice to get those 18 AA's?
I have defensive, offensive, and utility AA's groups expect me to bring to the table when I join them. Not to mention AA's that lower timer's to my offensive, defensive, and utilty AA's so that, again, I can do my job better in a group!

Yes, when your at the 1.5k or 2k AA mark you can afford to spend AA's on Tradeskill AA's and indeed I have spent AA's in salvage just because I was tired of losing time consuming parts to failures...

But again, the game is everQUEST not everAlternateAdvancement. I don't see how "getting lucky on a combine" is a bad thing, but thats my opinion.

SoF Eron's required 250 in all tradeskills. Cultural armor has skill requirements to it. To make Elaborate is 275, Elegant 300. POP had locked tradeskill skill recipes. Aid Grimel required combines that you were a certain skill level to attempt. This is not a NEW concept.

The last tradeskill item required 250 in all skills and had 400 trivial combines.

And yet you forget so munch in a short time(Or you forgot to proof read your own statement)....

Cultural Armour had 0 required skill to it. In fact, it had 0 required skill until Ngreth did the revamp during the SoF release(Pretty sure DoDh - TBS it was 0 skill but could be wrong). So overnite (err...patch) people went from being able to make this armour with out AA's to not being able to (I was one of them). I don't remember many people doing the Aid Grimmel quest from PoP. I'm sure Sony has a way to track those kind of things so I wont make assumptions about it. I do know that the Eron's jewlery was mostly a failure though on Prexus at least. Yes, some people did it because it was a quest, but many people quit long before finishing it b/c they got better(or equivelent) by just killing a mob.

The new one, the trivial are probably going to be over 400 based on trending upwards. There is no reason, imo, someone who is not a master at their craft should be able to create this masterpiece by farming enough pieces and "getting lucky".

Just to help you out (Using site calculator)...

A) 200 skill + 5% mod + 400 (Or better trivial) = 5% chance of success
B) 200 skill + 15% mod + 400(Or better trivial) = 5% chance of success

A + Mastery 3** = 30% chance
B + Mastery 3** = 40% chance

**Mastery only works for one tradeskill so thats more AA's you would have to buy

So, doing your homework...You'll need to kill 100 (Mastery = more AA's and I'm talking about no Tradeskill AA's here) of the same NPC to get a reasonable chance at success(Assuming said NPC drops it every time. Multiply that times 7 new steps and thats 700 kills (Minimum). Add in killing PH'ers, raising your skills to 200 (more time consuming that anything in todays EQ), finding a group to trudge to your camp (These can't be solo'd or boxed, remember), Finding/forming a raid (my suggestion, not what was implemented), and "getting lucky" doesn't sound "Half bad".

(Yes getting the 18 AA's to raise every skill above 200 would be wiser than purchasing Mastery AAs)

I know EQ doesn't follow "real life" but people with moderate skill can make some very nice stuff with preciouse gems and metal. Yes, sometimes they do get lucky and "happen upon that once in a lifetime best seller" but it does happen. Not every jewler works at one of the top end cutting facilities. Mabye thats why I don't see "getting lucky" as so outragouse. People do it in real life every day and their not grande masters...Their just people who have some skill doing something they like.

[Cellan]

then go out grouping and camping a shoulder item if you don't want to put effort into tradeskills.

Artisan quests are for people that have invested their time, plat, patience, and repeat those 3 a thousand more times into their skills .... and 18 AAs to ice the cake..... then we do it again for our trophy to evolve.

if you want something you can just camp and get exp and other drops with and walk away with a grandmaster TS item then what's the point? maybe you didn't work up your skills for doing shawl 8, but that doesn't speak for an overwhelming majority of the people that have. So yeah, we will be camping the drops again all the same, we will be failing combines again all the same ... the difference is that a skill level going to be required to attempt it.

maybe clicking a tradeskill container and reading the result isn't seen as a challenge. it isn't much different than casting a spell and seeing if a mob dies, taunting and seeing if a mob turns to you, casting a heal and seeing if a tank lives. it's all pushing buttons really..... but anyways.

[AbyssalMage]

then go out grouping and camping a shoulder item if you don't want to put effort into tradeskills.

Like you said, I want to put the effort into the tradeskill....NOT the AA

Artisan quests are for people that have invested their time, plat, patience, and repeat those 3 a thousand more times into their skills .... and 18 AAs to ice the cake..... then we do it again for our trophy to evolve.

And I'm expaining that the Artisan quest line is isolating the playing community instead of including the playing community. The same that raiders for years complained that groupers shouldn't get anything similiar to them. Today, raiders and groupers have seen alot more parity. Removing the "required" skill will allow more parity. It doesn't mean that they will be equall unless they spend 100's of hours more time on the same thing (As explained in my prior post)

if you want something you can just camp and get exp and other drops with and walk away with a grandmaster TS item then what's the point? maybe you didn't work up your skills for doing shawl 8, but that doesn't speak for an overwhelming majority of the people that have. So yeah, we will be camping the drops again all the same, we will be failing combines again all the same ... the difference is that a skill level going to be required to attempt it.

Umm...unless you raised your skills before all the revamps, how exactly did you raise your skill? You killed mobs...You attempted combines...You gained a grandmaster TS item. So if I don't spend AA's "I'm less that the Master Artisans?" I'm sure if I attempt a master TS and fail hundred's of times before success, I will get the same joy as you did when you spent the AA's and did the hundred's of combines. The joy is the same, the journey is different.

maybe clicking a tradeskill container and reading the result isn't seen as a challenge. it isn't much different than casting a spell and seeing if a mob dies, taunting and seeing if a mob turns to you, casting a heal and seeing if a tank lives. it's all pushing buttons really..... but anyways.

I was simply responding to his post that "the challenge of tradeskills" before the new UI was finding the trivial. That was the whole point of the comment. Pressing buttons isn't a challenge like you so elegantly put.

I simply would like tradeskilling to be more inclusive for the majority of the EQ community. Excluding someone because they don't meet certain criteria isn't inclusive. This is how it was before PoP, before the first of these quest lines were put in during PoP. Yes, on this board, you the tradeskiller are the majority, but you are not the EQ majority for who I am speaking for.

[Aldier]

I was simply responding to his post that "the challenge of tradeskills" before the new UI was finding the trivial. That was the whole point of the comment. Pressing buttons isn't a challenge like you so elegantly put.

Then you completely missed the point I was trying to make.