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  • What's with this forum?

    I find this forum a bit confusing and amusing at the same time. This is the only site I know with a "rant" forum where rants are largely not allowed. Every other thread has a disclaimer somewhere in it to the effect "This is not a personal attack". And the few threads here that manage to remain unedited mostly came as moved from other forums where the original authors hadn't necessarily realized or intended what they wrote might be construed as something for this forum.

    You guys don't really seem to want a rant forum. Perhaps you should just delete it altogether or maybe rename it from "Primal Scream Room" to "Polite Expression of Dissatisfaction Room".

    And please don't take this as a personal attack, but just some well meaning feedback after seeing some exasperation in the recent announcement. Bah, now you have me doing it too!

  • #2
    Well, there is a rant forum allowed on the most part, but there has to be a line drawn. If you allow people to full out shout and swear and tirade about anything and anyone then it'll be a downward spiral, if things are kept relatively clean (though without stopping people have a good moan) then I'm all for the Primal Scream. But I've seen cases where full out rant forums were introduced and pulled due to the extremity of how people went.

    Just a personal opinion and I'd rather not see the PS forum full of effing and blinding
    The Sprog

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    • #3
      This is certainly the kindest and gentlest of my EQ Message Board bookmarks. I think that's nice, though. It's clear to me that developers feel safer browsing and responding on these boards than, say, the shadowknight boards which I also read.

      You very rarely, if ever, see a dev or GM responding to anything there and I don't feel it is coincidence that their widely uncensored flame boards are also full of ogrish-like pictures, stories about excrement, and religious/racial/identity hatred.

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      • #4
        This forum is not intended as a full-blown rant forum in the same vein as the rant forums on other boards. It is here because we recognize that as there is real community here, people will want to do more than just share facts. They also want to share victories, defeats, and just generally chit chat. But we don't want that kind of stuff in the actual tradeskill forums, because it gets in the way of discussion. So, we have OOC for the completely off-topic chatter, and Primal Scream for the sharing of victories and defeats. But because Niami regards these boards as an extension of her home, where all of us are guests, we are expected to treat one another with the commesurate level of respect. That includes the developers as well as all our other guests, and even folks who never come here. Bad-mouthing other people isn't polite and isn't welcome. Niami has stated repeatedly that she would rather shut these boards down than be host to rude behavior.

        It is possible to scream primally, from your toenails to the tips of your hair, whether in joy, anger, despair, or frustration, without insulting anyone or using any vulgar language. Many people simply think that their extreme emotion excuses them from making the effort. That excuse doesn't fly here.
        Retiree of EQ Traders...
        Venerable Heyokah Verdandi Snowblood
        Barbarian Prophet & Hierophant of Cabilis
        Journeyman Artisan & Blessed of Brell
        EQ Players Profile ~ Magelo Profile


        Smith Dandi wipes her sooty hands on her apron and smiles at you.

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        • #5
          You make a good case of the benefits for this being a gentle place, and IMHO better articulate the vision of this forum than I have seen previously between the description blurb of "Having a rough tradeskill day or finally managed that elusive combine? Do tell! But keep it clean and stay away from personal attacks." together with Ngreth's admonition to realize other people will have different opinions.

          The one thing in the responses thus far that seems a little fuzzy to me is the term "rude behavior." If my observations don't mislead me, the act of complaining (whether about a "nerf", some bad luck with combines, or something else) seems to be viewed here as rude behavior above and beyond simply being out of place or distracting in forums other than this one. It is in that vein I was wondering outloud whether you guys really even want this forum to be here or might alternatively wish to redefine your vision for this area.

          Expressing a contrary opinion could also be construed as rude behavior. I have a supervisor in my workplace who has a tendency to be disagreeable and say no to whatever you have just said. Now that rubs me as rude, but I don't get hung up on it; I listen patiently to her viewpoint, reconsider, give my thoughts, and she (hopefully) reconsiders.

          I am in agreement that a line should be drawn. And it's not my privilege to decide where that line should be. But in the spirit of realizing that different people have different opinions, I hope you will find it possible to tolerate any perceived rudeness when I express a contrary opinion that when previous violators of board rules are so wary of being judged to say the wrong thing that they feel compelled to make disclaimers even in a rant area, then something doesn't feel right.

          I personally am not one for ranting, but I do take interest in seeing others perhaps more advanced than me in certain arenas expressing their difficulties and ideally being able to learn from their hardships. So I actually do appreciate this forum; I just don't like feeling unhappy vibes of those who are very diligently sweeping this "back porch" but would rather be baking in the kitchen or tinkering in the garage.

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          • #6
            Aamos (FV and in RD?), I would agree that this is more of a "diplomatic" rant forum than anything else. Mainly its for ranting, but without the use of profanity. I like it a lot since it holds true to the rest of this board. Any rant or argument using profanity easily gets derailed into a slugfest where the person who can shout the most wins.
            Here, even in order to rant, you still have to come up with a good explanation of the rant itself and why you are doing it. I believe this is one of the reasons that the SoE tradeskill representative (Maddoc) actually comes here to post and ask about things, something that I for one highly enjoy since SoE on average are not very vocal.
            300 - Baking, Brewing, Pottery, Smithing, Jewelcraft
            285 - Fletching
            282 - Tailoring
            Fishing 200, Research 200

            "Be not ashamed of mistakes and thus make them crimes." -Confucius (551 BC - 479 BC)

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            • #7
              I'm very impressed with how the moderators handle the posts here.

              -Bolas
              Buy My Stuff!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Bolas
                I'm very impressed with how the moderators handle the posts here.

                -Bolas
                aye.. I am soo holding my tongue myself..
                I'm very please with this site and its forums.. i hope they never change!
                Duchess Melinia Spellteaser of Vazaelle
                "Old World Travelers"
                Tradeskills:
                GM Baker 300 + Trophy GM Brewing 12/18/04
                Fletching 146 Smithing 110
                Jewel Crafting 175 Pottery 175
                Research 155 Tailoring 83
                Fishing 185

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                • #9
                  I like this forum. You can vent a few frustrations at the RNG, you can say you dislike (hate) a change. HOWEVER you should be able to do it in a civilised manner.

                  This is not a Flames forum, you should have no need to make personal attacks. Also you have no need to swear. I don't generaly like swearig myself and can understand Niami's wishes to have this place clean. Saying "I REALLY hate the new changes to the trivials" can get your message across just as easily but without the flames.


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                  • #10
                    It doesnt vent your anger in the same satisfactory manner as wishing (insert_hypothetic_flame_receipent_name_here) to go (do_something_nasty_to_self) or similar though.
                    Appren Hightowerr - returned Gnome Magician.

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                    • #11
                      And we welcome you to disagree with things here.

                      Heck even with us

                      But just because you disagree does not mean you can be insulting, crude, and whatnot (not saying you were being so, just saying)

                      Even though some people do consider "disagreement" to be rude, it is allowed here and why I have the sticky. We don't consider disagreements rude as long as you disagree without being insulting.

                      Saying "I disagree" or "I disagree because I think that it is ok to Kill steal because the game mechanics don't stop it", is not rude. Saying "I disagree with you because you are a moron" That is rude.

                      We don't mind you saying that you think something the devs did was a bad decision. It is not rude to say so, and not rude to present your side of it. We do consider it rude to say "That was a stupid decision" because that is equivalent to calling someone stupid, and therefore insulting. We have seen statements stronger than "stupid" and those are definitely out.

                      It is all in how you state your displeasure.

                      We just don't feel it is necessary to state your displeasure, even primally scream, while being insulting, abusive, or crude. I.E. Rude.

                      You will see a few posts with an AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGG type thing that is a "primal scream" and insults no-one so is allowed

                      And just because you disagree with us, doesn't mean we will change anything. Sometimes the answer just ends up being "because." In this case though the reason is what Ghismonda said. By refusing to allow flame-fests, insults, personal attacks, implied violence, dev bashing, and such... we get SOE folks that actually post here, and are comfortable posting here, because they know we enforce politeness. We do NOT enforce agreement, and the SOE folks are fine with that, and don't seem to expect it
                      Last edited by Ngreth Thergn; 03-07-2005, 11:22 AM. Reason: fixed typo
                      Ngreth Thergn

                      Ngreth nice Ogre. Ngreth not eat you. Well.... Ngreth not eat you if you still wiggle!
                      Grandmaster Smith 250
                      Master Tailor 200
                      Ogres not dumb - we not lose entire city to froggies

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Appren Hightowerr
                        It doesnt vent your anger in the same satisfactory manner as wishing (insert_hypothetic_flame_receipent_name_here) to go (do_something_nasty_to_self) or similar though.
                        And I agree with you.

                        But despite that, we still don't want that here We are really here to supply information, NOT a place to RANT. We understand that people want a place to rant, but we are just not interested in supplying such a place ourselves.

                        We have this forum here to let of SOME steam, but not to start a raging fire. You firebugs will have to find another place, we have a sprinkler system
                        Ngreth Thergn

                        Ngreth nice Ogre. Ngreth not eat you. Well.... Ngreth not eat you if you still wiggle!
                        Grandmaster Smith 250
                        Master Tailor 200
                        Ogres not dumb - we not lose entire city to froggies

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                        • #13
                          Thanks for taking the time to think about my questions and addressing points of confusion.

                          /waves to former guildmate Rissenn

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