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  • Optimum Trade skill targets above current skill level

    Hi,
    I have read 2 different accounts now about the trivial level item to create above your current skill level to achieve optimum skill-up probability per attempt.

    One is that you should aim for 3-4 levels above your current skill level as to go above this reduces the poss of skill-up as well as wasting plat....
    the other is that you should aim for an item 15-30 levels above your current skill level as this gives a greater poss of skill-up.

    These are contradictory, and i was wondering if anyone could clarify this?

    Thanks
    Intonion

  • #2
    Re: Optimum Trade skill targets above current skill level

    Originally posted by Intonion
    Hi,
    I have read 2 different accounts now about the trivial level item to create above your current skill level to achieve optimum skill-up probability per attempt.

    One is that you should aim for 3-4 levels above your current skill level as to go above this reduces the poss of skill-up as well as wasting plat....
    the other is that you should aim for an item 15-30 levels above your current skill level as this gives a greater poss of skill-up.

    These are contradictory, and i was wondering if anyone could clarify this?

    Thanks
    Intonion
    It really depends on your cashflow & what skill you're working on.

    If you've got high cashflow, you don't worry much about failures... Obviously you shouldn't try skilling up on Acrylia Plate Cloaks when you're at a Smithing skill of 120... but many people shift to Fine Plate right after skill 115 since it's easier for them to get leather padding than it is for them to do Ornate Chain.

    If you're working on Baking, once you hit 191 then you have to either jump to items that trivial at 202 (but require foraged items) or items that trivial much higher than that (like Halas Pies & MTPs).

    Brewing is similar, Tailoring has a jump as well.
    Angelsyn Whitewings, Cleric of Tunare for 66! Seasons.
    Grandmistress Smith - 300, Grandmistress Tailor - 300, Potter - 300, Jeweler - 300, Brewer - 200, Baker - 200, Fletcher - 200, Fisherwoman - 169
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    Grandmistress Baker - 300, Grandmistress Blacksmith - 300, Potter - 200, Brewer - 139, Tailor - 91

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    • #3
      Does it make a difference?

      The question I think though, is does it make a difference?

      If I have a skill of 100, and I try an item which trivs at 150, and one which trivs at 200, do I have exactly the same chance of a skill increase?

      Does making harder items make skill increases more or less likely?

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      • #4
        Re: Does it make a difference?

        Originally posted by Gnomtrix
        The question I think though, is does it make a difference?

        If I have a skill of 100, and I try an item which trivs at 150, and one which trivs at 200, do I have exactly the same chance of a skill increase?

        Does making harder items make skill increases more or less likely?
        From experience, and with no hard numbers, I would say that there's an increased chance of skillup nearer the triv.

        Of course, everyone also states that you have a higher chance of skillup on success, which will occur nearer triv, whereas I get most of my skillups on failures for some strange reason

        'course, I'm running at 101 int as my tradeskill stat, so your mileage may vary

        --attriel

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        • #5
          831 successes with 896 attempts. (92.3% success rate).
          33 skillups on successes of 38 total skillups (87% success on skill rate).

          Having GMed three tradeskills thus far, I'll go out on a limb and say that skillup slow downs have much more to do with tradeskill "hell levels" (194-195, 200-210, and ~220 seem to be hell regions, for instance) than they do with the "skillup on success" factor.

          Furthermore, hell regions aside, the skillup rate from Minotaur Hero Brew seemed more or less uniform from the high 180s all the way to the 240s.

          What it comes down to is that if you want to skill up quickly, find something with a trivial that you can use for a while that takes as few clicks as possible and can be bought in bulk.
          Sage Maldisdain Atheist
          *** C o e r c e r ***

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          • #6
            cool, thanks for the info
            The question I think though, is does it make a difference?

            If I have a skill of 100, and I try an item which trivs at 150, and one which trivs at 200, do I have exactly the same chance of a skill increase?

            Does making harder items make skill increases more or less likely?
            checked out Gumkak's excellent site http://www.valendor.org/gumkak/jewelcraft.asp also, and this seemed to indicate that the prob of success drops further from current level

            probability wise and factoring in plat im going the 'close to triv' option


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            • #7
              Originally posted by Maldisdain Atheist
              831 successes with 896 attempts. (92.3% success rate).
              33 skillups on successes of 38 total skillups (87% success on skill rate).
              From this piece of information taken in isolation, it would seem that a skill up is more likely on a failure :shock:

              5/65 = 7.7% chance to skill up on a failure
              33/831 = 4.0% chance to skill up on a success.

              Personally, I think the 'skill up on a success' is a myth because of the high success rates when we start caring about skill ups. Because most of our attempts are successes, most of our skillups then must come on successes, leading us to believe successes cause skill ups.

              I also believe that being very close to trivial lowers your chance of skill up.

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              • #8
                I agree. Because people tend to come and post here after they've finished mastering something (or at the end of a run of practices), they see that they skill up on successes at the end, and forget that they were scaling up on failures at the beginning =).

                At the same time, I suspect that the reason that near-trivial skillups come more slowly is that we tend to buy fewer items as we near the trivial range so that we don't have leftovers. As a result, we end up making more trips to the vendor, or breaking up our main combines with a few runs of subcombines.

                If you're 10 points from a skillup, you'll probably go ahead and fill up for 10 stacks of combines or so, while 1 point away, you'll do one stack at a time. You'd be amazed how that adds to the subjective perception of skillup time....
                Sage Maldisdain Atheist
                *** C o e r c e r ***

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                • #9
                  If you're 10 points from a skillup, you'll probably go ahead and fill up for 10 stacks of combines or so, while 1 point away, you'll do one stack at a time. You'd be amazed how that adds to the subjective perception of skillup time....
                  lol...If you're one point away and you buy components in small amounts because you don't want to have extra, the RNG knows this and you won't get that point until after a good 2 or so stacks of combines.

                  But if you buy a stack's worth of components for that one point, again the RNG knows this, and you skill up on the first combine.

                  /auc WTS 19 enchanted clays and laquered opals
                  /grumbles something about that dang RNG


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                  • #10
                    Very true Chenier.

                    My Magelo
                    Grandmistress Baker of Antonius Bayle, And owner of the Grandmasters Spoon

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Maldisdain Atheist
                      At the same time, I suspect that the reason that near-trivial skillups come more slowly is that we tend to buy fewer items as we near the trivial range so that we don't have leftovers. As a result, we end up making more trips to the vendor, or breaking up our main combines with a few runs of subcombines.
                      I actually very rarely work in lots of more than a stack unless I am making an item for sale. I've just noticed that I'll go from 2-3 skill ups a stack to none when I'm within a point of a trivial. This has happened on several occasions in the mid-100 range.

                      Of course, I could be wrong too since I've never bothered to correlate it, and I now tend to transition to the next higher recipe when within 2-3 points of trivial rather than mess around with partial stacks of newly trivial material.

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