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Experience Penalties: Still There ?

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  • Experience Penalties: Still There ?

    Working on the latest version of an EQ project; had questions, and didn't know where else to ask and find knowledgeable people.

    Question 1: Are experience penalties for various classes still in existence? I believe the answer is no, but would like some confirmation.

    Question 2: Are experience penalties for various races still in exsistence? I believe the answer is YES, but I would like some confirmation.

    Question 3: If any experience penalties are still in existence, what are the modifiers?

  • #2
    Class exp modifiers were supposedly removed um.. quite some time ago.. in the neighborhood of a couple years. Wether or not they're entirely gone has become a matter of debate recently with the large exp requirements for 66-70, and some odd exp events. That said, they weren't actually removed, they were "adjusted" out... so what's being seen could simply be the "adjustment" being more pronounced with the greater exp ranges.

    Racial exp modifiers still exist. I've never remembered the numbers exactly, but somehting in the 15% range for trolls and iksars.. 20% for oger (although i might have troll and oger switched)... 5% bonus for halflings because, well, they're next to humans on the racial table, and Verant apperantly didn't belive in making those tables with lines... Barbarians take a smaller hit, for being able to bash... that's about all of them i remember.

    I'm sure i've missed some.
    Last edited by Moraganth; 10-14-2004, 10:56 AM.

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    • #3
      Thank you Moraganth - that's what I believed too. I still need some confirmation tho - it may require experimentation. (Ugh.) I had always thought the dividers were:

      1.20 for trolls
      1.15 for ogres, iksar
      1.05 for barbarians
      .95 for halflings.

      I would still like further confirmation, but it seems like I'm going to have to actually do some experimentation if I'm going to be absolutely sure - oh bother.

      BTW, this seems really kinda nutty, especially in cases like ogre shamen, etc. Of course, when it comes to Iksar BL's and monks, it seems right on. :P

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      • #4
        Trolls and Iksar have the same penalty. There is another thread related to this topic further down the forum. Do a search of this forum to find the other information that I have posted there.


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        • #5
          Thank you, Cubwynn, for pointing me somewhat obliquely to this thread . What it seems to say is that the class xp penalties were not truly taken out, just compensated for in grouping situations.

          I did a little experientation. I created a few level 1 characters of different races and clases, and notated how many kills it to to get them all to level 2. I did NOT do the tutorial, I did not turn in the newb note, and I did all my killing in hollowshade moor, since it was the only place I could think of with level 1 mobs where good and evil characters would not be ganked by the guards. I only killed level 1 mobs, and I notated exactly how many mobs it took to level. A halfling ranger, halfling warrior, vah shir berserker, and an ogre warrior all took the same 8 level-one mobs to level. The sole difference was the ranger had 1% into level 2 after 8 mobs, and none of the others did. So I don't know what's going on.

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          • #6
            Level 1 may not be an accurate measure; that level is incredibly funky. I wouldn't trust any results below level 5, frankly. Sony wants those levels to be very short, so the relative exp on those levels will be very similar and the differences won't be as pronounced.

            If you have the patience (and can find a quantity of consistent-level mobs to test), you might want to try counting mobs for going from level 10 to 11. This might give you a more meaningful measuring stick.
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            • #7
              shaodw haven

              One way to test would be the shadowhaven delivery to bazaar quest and have merchants turned off. if the large races cant get quest use illion potions. this should not effect the real calculations for exp. I know i lvled a Gnome SK and high elf enchanter on these for 5 lvls before the bazaar was live and maybe a good test base

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              • #8
                wariors and rogues (I think rogues) still have their exp bonus. because the devs thought it would be too much of a nerf to remove the bonus... they did remove the other class penalties though.
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                • #9
                  I play a halfling warrior. For almost the entirety of my first 50 levels I partnered with a halfling druid (i.e., only very rarely grouped or soloed). My partner was almost obsessed with keeping us the same level. Fortunately for her, she had more free time to play EQ than me.

                  I do vaguely remember the statement, way back when, that penalties were being removed but bonuses would not be nerfed. I can't remember if it included both racial and class penalties, though, and couldn't find anything in a brief search.

                  I can say with certainty that the halfling warrior gains a level and a yellow bubble for each halfling druid level, even after the penalties were removed.

                  I still get comments about how much xp I gain relative to other group members, when the topic comes up. (now level 60)
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                  • #10
                    Yeh, level 1 isn't the best level to check by, it's the smallest experience amount needed, so your "sample" is going to have the smallest (and hardest to see) difference.

                    As i remember, rangers were one of the classes that had an exp penalty (all hybrids as i remember), and the basic jist of their adjustment out of those penalties would show hybrids "gain" experience a bit faster, but would show a larger loss upon death (pre-rez)... or something along those lines. It was more a "visual" difference, than an actually number difference. It made sense at the time it was done, and the discussion for a couple weeks after that.. but it's just been too long for my one neuron left to remember anything more exact.

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                    • #11
                      From the thread Cubwynn mentioned and Lryon linked to:
                      5. Class-based experience bonuses (which warriors and rogues get) are also not appropriate, as they cannot be so if penalties are not. However, we've decided to leave this as-is, since the bonus is not so severe as to be unbalancing. Bottom line: we don't feel the bonus is enough to warrant a fix that could be interpreted as a 'nerf'.
                      From the Allakhazam archive copy of the EQ Producer's Letter the put out at the time.

                      -----

                      As for the death bit, they did "up" the death penalty for hybrids due to the way they removed the xp penalty - ie, I get 140% of the normal xp per kill, so it makes sense that I lose 140% of the normal death penalty, so that proportionally, I gain and lose the same amount as a normal person. If a death sets a human cleric back 5%, it will also set a human paladin back 5% now (before, the paladin would have a lower % lost, because they took more total xp to level - 5/100 is a bigger percent than 5/140).

                      -----

                      At the time of the change, I had been doing an experiment with measuring drop rates vs player level. My eventual sample sizes were too small to actually glean anything useful for what I was trying to determine, but it did let me see some of the xp changes.

                      Before the changes, it took a dwarf paladin 13 kills of "a snake" (level 1 mob) in Butcherblock mountains to ding lvl 2. My data's a bit disorganized, so I can't find the post-change value for lvl 2, but pre-change lvl 2 was 81 kills (same mob).

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