Fan Faire, Research, and the trophy quest

[Mester]

According to information from Fan Faire, research will be available to all classes. Different archtypes will be able to research different spells, tomes, and songs.

Here's the relevant information from Niami's summary:

Research: Will get all spells up to TSS Rank 2. Also implementing tome research, which means melee classes will be able to research tomes! All classes will be able to research spells, but all classes are not equal with regards to research.

* INT classes will still be able to do any researchable spell that is in the game.
* Melee classes will be able to research any tome that can be researched.
* Priests will be able to research any priest spell that can be researched.
* Hybrids will be able to research any hybrid spell or tome that can be researched.
* Bards will be able to research any hybrid spell, tome or song that can be researched.
* INT casters and melee continue to have difficulty 1. Priests and bards will have difficulty 2. Hybrids will have difficulty 3.

The spell research trophy quest has a bunch of different things to make and not everyone will be able to make them. Is there any information about how this will work?

[Shadrok]

Hmmmm ....

I imagine that means that everyone will be able to make solutions to 243.

I don't envision a very cheap skilll-up path past 243 for any except the INT casters. Priest spells do not sell as well as INT spells, and the market is already jammed. Hybrid spells sell very poorly. Tomes might sell, but if INT casters can make them, that market will be gone before any melee gets very high.

I guess this means all those dirty papers I bought in the bazaar at 5-10pp way before SoF will finally be useful. Something for my druid to clean, at least.

I'm sure the trophy quest will be adjusted so any class can do it.

[Shival]

Two questions. First, from the sound of this, a bard will be able to research a beastlord spell but a beastlord will not be able to research a bard song. Is this correct and if so, what is the reasoning behind it? Secondly, will all classes get the arcane tongues aa that allows for less research failures, or will that remain an INT class only aa?

[Ngreth Thergn]

According to information from Fan Faire, research will be available to all classes. Different archtypes will be able to research different spells, tomes, and songs.

Here's the relevant information from Niami's summary:



The spell research trophy quest has a bunch of different things to make and not everyone will be able to make them. Is there any information about how this will work?

It is something I have not finalized. I do need to do something, and they may NOT have a trophy right away.

And yes, INT casters will continue to have an easier time of it than ANY class, including melee, even thought he melee do have the same low difficulty number. There are just not as many tomes as there are spells for melee to work with. They will likely have to skill up on items that do not result in tomes.

Two questions. First, from the sound of this, a bard will be able to research a beastlord spell but a beastlord will not be able to research a bard song. Is this correct and if so, what is the reasoning behind it? Secondly, will all classes get the arcane tongues aa that allows for less research failures, or will that remain an INT class only aa?

1. Correct. Beastloards will not be able to scribe songs. As for the reasoning... it is roleplayinsh. Bards are a jack of all trades type thing, and have many general skills. Because of this I allow them to do all hybrid spells and tomes. Song writing is fairly specialized, but I allow INT casters to do it because they also have the big general research type of "feel" that would allow them to at the minimum transcribe a song.

2. I do not plan on having the AA for ANYONE including melee. The higher end difficulties for tomes have been adjusted to account for not having the AA available. As for priests, hybrids and bards, they have to deal with the greater difficulty of not having the AA for spells. It is a factor of it NOT being something they specialize in as much as int casters or melee.

One more thing that I forgot to mention to my interviewer in the preview.

Melee can also get to 300 skill, but all others stop at 200 and will need to spend differing amounts of AA points to get to 300, depending on their class.

[Elfdruidess]

Melee can also get to 300 skill, but all others stop at 200 and will need to spend differing amounts of AA points to get to 300, depending on their class.

Gnome Rogues now maxes at 3000 Tradeskill skill points (not counting fishing) with only 18 AAs. Woohoo.

[Yalum]

It is something I have not finalized. I do need to do something, and they may NOT have a trophy right away.

Aww, no trophy. Will the class restrictions be taken off the Geerlok Automated Quill?

[Mester]

Thank you for the information, Ngreth.

I recently created a berserker and one of his starting skills was research. That had me wondering what was going to happen.

[Ngreth Thergn]

Aww, no trophy. Will the class restrictions be taken off the Geerlok Automated Quill?

It should. We will see if I remember to do so.

[Delph]

Can you give us any indication what recipes these classes (priests, bards, hybrids, melees) are to use for skilling?

Will the Spell Research Kit be usable by everyone?

Are the various inks, quills, thickeners, solutions, and cleaned stationary able to be made by these classes (priests, bards, hybrids, melees)?

Will they be able to use the newly added binding powder recipes (likely with help from a caster with the associated essence summoning spell)?

If they don't get to use the above recipes, are there some new products intended as a skillup path for priests, bards, hybrids, and melees?

Thank you again for all your efforts!

[Elyssanda]

Can you give us any indication what recipes these classes (priests, bards, hybrids, melees) are to use for skilling?

Some of your question is answered in this thread

[Turrosh Mak]

* INT casters and melee continue to have difficulty 1. Priests and bards will have difficulty 2. Hybrids will have difficulty 3.

Let me get this straight. A dumb-as-a-box-of-rocks Craknek Warrior will have an easier time creating a Shadowknight tome than a proud member of the Greenbloods? Outrageous! The fact that I'm smart enough to use a shield and cast spells should argue for making me BETTER at making tomes. Those difficulty numbers should be reversed. Priests, bards, and Hybirds 2, pure melee 3.

The current plan is to have pure melee go to 300 research but Hybirds only go to 200? That won't wash, simply from a game play perspective. Hybirds who research will probably be doing 2-3x as many "combines for effect" because they will be doing spells as well as tomes. If you make it hard for me to skill up and then double the whammy by capping me lower than your average meatshield, the unfairness will make my blood boil (and that's a spell I can cast, too!)

[sensei savager]

I would imagine that the reason melee have a difficulty of 1 is because they can only research TOMES whereas the hybrids can research tomes AND spells therefore they have a larger pool of ingredients and such. Of course, it could be that we're just dumb like you say so we're getting graded on a curve

[Carmaris]

After mulling it over a few days, decided to post my thoughts.

While I understand the desire to inject a roleplaying-ish rational into this, I don't think the current plan quite covers it...no offense, but it seems like the easy way to do it, without truly expressing roleplay concerns.

As posted earlier, I find it hard to believe that any Ogre or Troll warrior is going to be better suited for researching than my dwarf paladin...unless it's researching the best ways to get those pesky gnome parts out from between the teeth (and their solution is likely to be "pull toof, prob'em fixt.")

I also think it's unfair to lump clerics in with druids and shaman...from a strictly roleplaying PoV, a cleric is going to be called on to research (gotta know your history, your religious texts, etc) as part of their normal activities than druids or shaman. The former, while relying a certain amount on "Oh please [insert deity of choice], grant me the power to smite your enemies and heal my friends" still has to hit the books a lot more than tree huggers tapping into natural forces/praying to woodland deities and someone looking to ancestral spirits and spirit guides for help.

As far as class based RP balancing goes, I'd say that monks, rogues, and clerics should be the ones to get the auto 300 and difficulty 2 (they all are used to rigorous training and hitting the books). I might even include shadowknights since they are intelligence casters, possibly paladins since one of their parent classes would be in the group. Or I'd give paladins and sk's difficulty 2 with the 200 cap or auto 300 and difficulty 3--something along those lines.

But then--if I were truly looking at RP reasons--I'd also have to break it down based on race. Ogres/Trolls, regardless of class, would be 200 cap, difficulty 3. Gnomes would get some kind of benefit, as would high elves. So on and so forth.

Of course, I'm sure this would make it a lot more difficult from a coding PoV, but then that's why the devs get paid the big bucks

[Yalum]

Have y'all seen the int scores melees are walking around with these days? Anybody still doing the dumb ogre routine is trying to make you overconfident.

Tome research should definitely be based off mind stats, though. Preferably just int, not wis (aside from the wis hybrids), if that's possible.

[Carmaris]

Have y'all seen the int scores melees are walking around with these days?

Yeah, as a wis casting hybrid, my int is still maxxed. But I don't think you can count mudflation in when trying to justify mechanics based on roleplay.