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Any idea when rec/req level on new JC stuff might happen?

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  • #61
    Let me put it this way to demonstrate how the system is wrong. At 50, you can have 10ac 100hp item, without any slot 11 item in it .. you can add slot 11 items with effects and what not, and not change the ac or hps. However, if you put an Harmonagate, Taaffeite or other item with 60 or higher rec level, your total stats will go down.

    This makes absolutely no sense!

    So now I have 3 items I have to remove augs to get better stats. The formula need re-worked.

    Yther Ore.
    Last edited by Yther; 01-16-2008, 11:18 PM. Reason: gramatical errors -- probably more :(

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    • #62
      Right, thats what I meant about the recomended levels giving a double adjustment.
      Basically, what is happening is this when you take a 10/100 item and add a Taaffeite.
      The Taaffeite is reduced to 10% stats (as expected) by the new code. This results in an item that is 12 ac, 125 hp (etc). But then the recommended level code (which wasn't supposed to work on scripted items) kicks in, and you get 55/75 of the total (for a level 55 character) this reduces the stats to ~9ac/92 hp.
      Last edited by Bobaten; 01-17-2008, 12:39 AM.

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      • #63
        Actually there is no double adjustment at all. What Yther describes has been the case always for all augs/items which have a recommended level on them.
        When you put an aug with a rec level into an item and you are below the rec level the WHOLE item's stats are put at the % return for that aug at whatever level that toon is.

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        • #64
          Right, I know. But the special code was added to the JC augs that is reducing the stats of the type 11 aug first, and then the normal rec level reduction is reducing the stats of the whole piece.
          Originally posted by Ngreth
          We have to do the recommended level in the script that does the metal adjustment because scripts override the default recommended level code.
          The script did not override the default code so what we get is both the script reduction AND the default recommended level code.

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          • #65
            I agree there should be a recommended level on the jewelry. In my opinion however the recommended level on type 11 gems now is way to high. The recommended level should be about 20 levels lower from what they are now. The type 10 gems shouldn't have a recommended level since they that messes with the important gems.

            Recommended level now:
            Taaffeite is 75 but should be 55
            Harmonagate is 70 but should be 50
            Nihilites are 65 but should be 45
            Prestidigitase is 60 but should be 40
            Emerald is 40 but shouldn't have one
            Opal is 40 but shouldn't have one
            etc.

            This would prevent twinks from running around with 5k hp just from jewelery but provide a decent alternative for characters as they grow.

            As it stands now almost nobody is buying the jewelery because nobody wants to wear it. I understand there might be a recommended level bug right now (type 10 gems should not have a rec level, some may not consider it a bug but I do) but even if that is fixed keeping the recommended levels as is will make jewelry making totally dead. Why implement a brand new system for the jewelry making then nerf it so much that there is no longer a reason to wear it and therefore no reason to make it?
            Last edited by Ninden; 01-21-2008, 06:40 PM.
            Ninden, 77 Rogue, proud member of Shining Alliance



            Boramur Soulforge, 56 Knight

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            • #66
              I confirmed that the scripts are working as intended.

              We are not happy with it though so will be looking at it again.
              Ngreth Thergn

              Ngreth nice Ogre. Ngreth not eat you. Well.... Ngreth not eat you if you still wiggle!
              Grandmaster Smith 250
              Master Tailor 200
              Ogres not dumb - we not lose entire city to froggies

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Ninden View Post

                Recommended level now:
                Taaffeite is 75 but should be 55
                Harmonagate is 70 but should be 50
                Nihilites are 65 but should be 45
                Prestidigitase is 60 but should be 40
                Emerald is 40 but shouldn't have one
                Opal is 40 but shouldn't have one
                We just do not agree. We do not agree that we should be giving level 1 players 700 HP/Mana (which would be true if emerald and opal were left at no recommended level)

                As it is, Merloc was not happy at giving it at 40, but I pushed and got it down to 40.
                Ngreth Thergn

                Ngreth nice Ogre. Ngreth not eat you. Well.... Ngreth not eat you if you still wiggle!
                Grandmaster Smith 250
                Master Tailor 200
                Ogres not dumb - we not lose entire city to froggies

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                • #68
                  But the way it is now, level 1 players can only get 7 hp/mana over 7 slots and it stays that way until level 35 at least? The pre revamp platinum and velium jewelry with no level restrictions was better than that.

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                  • #69
                    Its 8 slots not 7 so if bought gems had no recommened lvl's that would be 800HP/Mana on a firs lvl toon.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Ngreth Thergn View Post
                      We just do not agree. We do not agree that we should be giving level 1 players 700 HP/Mana (which would be true if emerald and opal were left at no recommended level)

                      As it is, Merloc was not happy at giving it at 40, but I pushed and got it down to 40.
                      Yes your right that would almost 1k hp for level 1 toons. And I agree that should not be the case. I did say "I agree there should be a recommended level on the jewelry." and "This would prevent twinks from running around with 5k hp just from jewelery but provide a decent alternative for characters as they grow." (I was only trying to think of some solution to help. Obviously that wouldn't work.)

                      It just doesn't seem right that a level 55 toon with an opal mounted (rec lvl 40) getting a deduction in the opals hp when they also equip a nihilite (rec lvl 65) since they meet the opals requirements. Shouldn't the nihilite be the one with reduced stats and not the opal since they meet the requirement for the opal? I understand items normally take on an augs stats including the rec level when auged but with multiple gems in one mount I would think they should be handled separately. /shrug

                      My main issue though is adding the recommended levels as high as they are not only prevents these items from being used for twinking low level toons but also makes the jewelry undesirable to anyone not over the recommended level. In my opinion the scaling is way off. Would reducing the recommended level by 20 levels really make the jewelry over powered?

                      This doesn't even cover the alexandrite, black sapphire, combine star, demantoid, goshenite, jacinth, morganite, rubelite were pretty much worthless pre-patch. imo these gems should also be type 10, this would allow for some interesting ring combinations and I dont think it would be to over powering. Now post-patch you have hundreds upon hundreds of the cut and uncut gems sitting in the bazaar and almost nobody buying them. I have had hundreds of these on my trader since they were introduced for 5p each and nobody wants them. I don't blame people I wouldn't want them either. Now post-patch they are %100 worthless.

                      I understand that these items may be changed to work better. All I'm saying is that right now in the it's current state the newly revamped jewelry system doesn't seem right. Currently tons of the lower level gems are droping and nobody wants them. Now with the recommended level added people defiantly don't want the lower level gems and even the high level gems are now unattractive. If it stays like it is now jewel crafting will die imo.
                      Ninden, 77 Rogue, proud member of Shining Alliance



                      Boramur Soulforge, 56 Knight

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Ninden View Post
                        Now with the recommended level added people defiantly don't want the lower level gems and even the high level gems are now unattractive. If it stays like it is now jewel crafting will die imo.
                        Actually the newly revamped jewelry system is great for skilling up but to what end?
                        Ninden, 77 Rogue, proud member of Shining Alliance



                        Boramur Soulforge, 56 Knight

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                        • #72
                          It was already possible to get close to 100 hp/ma per slot with velious era jewelcraft items and no level limit. There were also a number of other traditional "twink" items with comparable stats. I'm having a hard time identifying the problem with floor stats at this level.

                          In fact, I'm even dubious about messing with it at all; there is some significant virtue in permitting people to solo low level toons up without resorting to powerleveling. But that is apparently a lost battle.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Ninden View Post
                            It just doesn't seem right that a level 55 toon with an opal mounted (rec lvl 40) getting a deduction in the opals hp when they also equip a nihilite (rec lvl 65) since they meet the opals requirements. Shouldn't the nihilite be the one with reduced stats and not the opal since they meet the requirement for the opal? I understand items normally take on an augs stats including the rec level when auged but with multiple gems in one mount I would think they should be handled separately. /shrug
                            This actually does happen. The unmodified stats for the nihilite are reduced based on the script that they wrote for the recommeneded level. The issue is that when you put it in a setting, it is taking the entire piece of jewelry and running it through the standard recommended level reduction sequence causing the other gems in the setting to also get reduced.
                            Shawlweaver Sphynx on Cazic Thule
                            Master Artisan Aldier on Cazic Thule

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                            • #74
                              This definitely solves the 5K level 1 gear however, there are some gems where the new level requirements that don't make sense.

                              What is so overpowering about triple resistance or stat gems?
                              Normal resistances and stats are recommended level 40 AND they are type 10 and 11, Yet triple resistance or stat gems are recommended level 60 and are only type 11.

                              As comparison:
                              At 55 you can get Staurolite which has 12 AC, One stat, 100HPs/Mana, and two resistances.
                              At 60 you can get Prestidigitase, which has 14 AC, Two stats, 150HPs/Mana, and two resistances.

                              I'd suggest at least knocking down the triple resistance and stat gems (Amethyst, Black Sapphire, and Combine Star, Alexandrite, Demantoid, Goshenite, and Jacinth.) to the Damage Shield and Regen level of 50, although I don't see why they would be overpowered at 40, stat bonuses scale downward with level.

                              I'd also love to see some of the combinations you could make with them if they were also type 10. Like was said earlier, currently they are worthless compared to other items, especially after the new recommended levels given to them. By the time you can use them you have better options.

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                              • #75
                                Why are the unmodified stats not showing the full potential of the pieces? The whole point of clicking the unmodified button is to see what the item will become when you reach the recommended level. This can not be working as intended, or else "working as intended" means being broken on purpose?

                                For example:

                                lvl 70 Monk
                                Dwerium Trio Ring
                                Round Cut Peridot
                                Half-Moon Cut Taaffeite
                                Round Cut Opal

                                Modified Stats,
                                AC: 21, HP: 254, Mana/End: 161, Str/Wis/Agi/Dex: 14, Resists: 14

                                Un-Modified Stats,
                                AC: 23, HP: 272, Mana/End: 172, Str/Wis/Agi/Dex: 15, Resists: 15

                                I do not have any characters between lvl 70 and my lvl 80 characters to see what the stats look like at 75, but at lvl 80 they show the full stats as they should.

                                I agree there needed to be restrictions placed onthe items, but the current amount is a bit too severe, and the problem with the unmodified stats needs fixed for sure.

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