PoR NDA Lifted (spoilers included)

[Avalin]

what are the stats on the trophy? same as the old one?

[Twistagain]

Say if you want the 8% mod on trophy 5 while you are in the 250 to 300 skill range, once you get to 300 skill, isn't it simpler to just destroy your trophy and get a new trophy 6 instead?

Beta Quest Spoiler...skip ahead if you don't wanna know


Well...if the list of items to make remains the same on live as they were in beta, the level 6 trophies could be fairly time consuming quests, depending on what you can find in the bazaar (not like grimel-time-consuming...but still.)

For instance, the Baking Trophy required you to make (again, on beta...this could change for live):

Beer-Battered Darkhollow Basilisk Souffle
Blood Raven Stew
Hearty Meat Sauce
Hero Sandwich
Hobgoblin Surprise
Misty Thicket Picnic
Pixie Powder Cinnesticks
Sea Green Cookies
Wolf Fillet in Cream
Grandmaster Baker's Spoon

Or, to break it down a little more, here's a "shopping list" for ya (this includes the original trophy, which you don't have to re-make if you have...so keep that in mind):

Bought (approx. best cost = 2,645p)
1 Algae Spices
1 Barley
1 Bear Meat
1 Benzoin
1 Bottle
7 Bottle of Milk
5 Carrot
1 Celestial Solvent
4 Cup of Flour
1 Cup of Sugar
1 Eucalyptus Leaf
2 Fennel
6 Frosting
1 Ground Pepper
1 High Quality Firing Sheet
1 Hops
2 Jug of Sauces
3 Jumjum Stalk
6 Lettuce
3 Loaf of Bread
2 Mandrake Root
1 Plankton Frosting
1 Poison Vial
1 Red Wine
1 Rennet
4 Ruby
1 Short Beer
1 Small Block of Clay
1 Small Brick of Ore
4 Spices
1 The Scent of Marr
5 Turnip
8 Velium Bar
3 Vinegar
5 Water Flask

Dropped
1 Anaconda (or Griffon) Meat
2 Basilisk Egg
1 Black Sapphire
1 Blue Diamond
2 Blood Raven Parts
1 Brownie Parts
1 Darkhollow Basilisk Meat
1 Diamond
3 Hero Parts
1 Hobgoblin Meat
1 Jacinth
3 Pixie Dust
1 Wolf Meat

Foraged
1 Cinnamon Sticks
1 Fruit

Utensils
1 Cake Round
2 Dairy Spoon
1 File
1 Filleting Knife
1 Pie Tin
2 Pot
1 Smoker

Note: I don't include sub-components on utensils because you most likely have these already.

[Quichon]

Question:

When checking the player's skill, does it take pre-mod or post-mod?

Example: I have a skill of 248 plus geerlok (let's just say Brewing since that's a fairly popular number to stop at in that tradeskill for some reason... ). This gives me a modded skill over 250.

1) Do I get the trophy for the 250-300 skill or the trophy for the 200-248 skill

2) Would it level up as though I were in the 250-300 bracket (i.e. gain experience as a 250-300 bracket trophy, or rapidly gain experience as though it were trying to 'catch up')?

3) Would it use my modded or my base skill for the purpose of calculating skill to determine if a triv is 100+ my current skill?

Since I'm assuming these trophies have skill mods, and you have to equip it to level it, this is going to be something that will affect every player wielding one. I'm assuming you're talking pre-mod values, but just clarifying to make sure.

[Weskat]

Question:

When checking the player's skill, does it take pre-mod or post-mod?

Snip

Pretty sure that one of the posts from Ngreth stated it looks at your BASE skill (ie no mod, so from your example, 248) It will then gain "extra" experience to catch up to you.

Overall it looks pretty nice despite what some people are stating.

[Ngreth Thergn]

All aspects of the trophy itself, geting it, it getting exp, it not getting exp, it getting bonus exp, etc... deal with BASE skill. If the tasks to get a trophy, or the trophy ITSELF has to do a calculation, it uses the Base skill.

only the combine system pays attention to your modified skill.

[Weskat]

snip
It seems to me pointless to have even coded option 2. You'd have to be insane to go that route. The 3% gain for trophy 5 over a geerlok or old trophy isn't worth it.
snip

That 3% at 282 skill is a differenc of 8-9 (depending on rounding) "effective" skill points. Using your Fletching example, new recipies are being added and the 8 skill points could well mean the difference between the combine being trivial as compared to your "effective" skill and the item not being "effectively" trivial.

As far as Option 1 or 2, depending on the quest requirements, Level 5 quest may be worth doing and, given Ngreth's example, the trophy will gain over ten times the normal experience in order to catch up so the "lag period" should be very short (though it will still exist.)

So Option 2 may be a very viable option depending on the difficulty difference between quest 5 and quest 6.

[Ngreth Thergn]

And Admittedly, initially, the Fletching may be more "difficult" at six than five.

This was in order to be fair to NON- Wood elf/Karana. To get combines, that were REASONABLE within the range of 300 skill, I had to use some PoR bows.

The reason I say initially... is because there will be an initial period of finding the bow recipes and the parts for the bows. Once that has been well established, it should be easier to do (still not necessarily easier than 5... but you get the idea) since people will know how to find parts and what the recipes are.

[Xulan]

At 282 fletching, you'll be in between trophy 5 and 6. I cannot imagine your trophy 5 reflecting the number of combines you've done instead of your skill. Because if it reflects the number of combines you've done, what if you've reached a maxed, say 1000 combines and *still* haven't reached 300 skill? Surely, the trophy cannot reach 6 ahead of your skill reaching 300.

Unless, the number of combines needed for every 50 points in skill has now been capped. But that would involve skillup coding instead of just evolving items.

The trophy can reach one level ahead of you. So, if you have the expert level trophy, which is what you get when you receive the quest at 250-299 skill and complete it, the trophy can read the master level (as if you had done the quest at 300), which is what you get if you request and complete the quest with 300 skill.

The trophy can get one level ahead of you. In the case of fletching, at 282, it will be better to just get the expert trophy now, and let it level up over time.

If you are really close to the next level, it would probably be better to get the next level before doing the trophey. That said, at any time, if you make the next level in skill (say you hit 300) and your trohpy isn't 300, you can get that level of skill's test quest (master in this case) and complete it. This will raise your trophy to your current level.

There is one level past master, as if the trophy could get 350 skill (its final evolution). This will take a fair amount of combines and is meant to be something that happens over time, naturally and not ground.

[Xulan]

This whole system is so intriguing that just trying to fully understand it is half the fun already!

Ok, so I'm still confused on the benefit of evolving a lvl 5 trophy.

Say if you want the 8% mod on trophy 5 while you are in the 250 to 300 skill range, once you get to 300 skill, isn't it simpler to just destroy your trophy and get a new trophy 6 instead? Then you won't have to worry about how much exp your trophy 5 ever had.

I guess what I am confused about is, once you arrive at 300 skill, is a trophy 5 with exp on it better than a brand new trophy 6?

It really depends on how close trophy 5 is to leveling. As Ngreth said, you get a pretty huge bonus to xp once at the next level to help your trophy catch-up.

That said, if it is really far behind (someone said less than 50%, but I don't know personally), it's easier to just get the quest and redo it for your level 6 trophy. It also depends on the quest to a point. Some take a more time than others in collecting the parts needed for the combines.

[Mannwin Woobie]

Sorry, now I am confused again on how to get the new trophy. Do you need the old-world trophy to do the new ones? Or is it a quest? Or both?

[Bolas]

I should have suggested this in Beta...the trophies should talk to us...

Suceed on a high -trivial combine, and trophy lets out a WOOT~! YEAH BABY!

Succeed on a trivial combine, and trophy will say "Yay you....what do you want, a cookie?"

Fail a non-trivial combine? Trophy will sympathize with you and/or yell DOH!

Fail something really easy, and trophy insults you. "OMG, even my 3 year old my kid brother could do that with his eyes closed!"

Fail 20 times in a row and trophy spontaneously combusts from its stupendously virulent cursing spree at the RNG

Trophies can talk to you NOW... it's called "voice triggers". You can set it up to get a message upon failure, a message upon success, and a message upon gaining a skilll up.

-Bolas

[marmaladeX]

So basically, I should just wait with my 203 Research skill to do any combines for the Parchments that are trivial 216 until I get myself a trophy?

[Wymp]

An interesting concept, for sure.

Although it is highly skewed on the side of the trades with more "easy-to-make" recipes over 300 (baking, brewing, karana/woodie items)

What about the others like Tinkering and Research that have fewer options over 300? Are there more new recipes for all trades that help compensate?

And, yes, I saw that it will take quite a bit more of the storebought combines; but even then, it's going to be much, much easier to accomplish for them than for those that never did and still don't have that option.


And what about the changes to DoN cultural drops (teeth, silks, hides, etc.) .. were those made or coming later? Did the recipes get changed to where we will need to use up our current supplies of things like yttrium or shissar scales before the patch?


edit - Oh .. and it sounds to me like it will end up being better to just wait until you hit an evolution step before even bothering to get the new trophy from what I'm hearing. Seems like less of a hassle to wait, say at 280, until you hit 300 before even getting the trophy, so it starts at level 6 rather than trying to evolve the thing after you already hit 300. I don't about the rest of you, but I rarely find myself sitting around making high-level combines unless someone needs that item made. I seriously doubt there'll be a market for all the stuff people will be having to make to skill-up their trophies. Sure, things like picnics and kaladim constitutionals will continue to sell, but what about the stuff you'll have to be making with the other trades?

[Caladel]

"Sorry, now I am confused again on how to get the new trophy. Do you need the old-world trophy to do the new ones?"

Yes and no, depends on your skill level. I doubt the lower level trophies need it. But its one of the things you need to make and hand in for the 250 skill and 300 skill trophies. IF you have an old one you can hand it in for credit, and do not need to make an new one for the task.(you have to hand it in twice, once to get credit for making it, and once as a hand in with all the other items to get the new trophy)

The trohpies are aquired through a regular task. You just hail the npc, and tell it which tradeskill you want to do and it gives you the task for your skill level. Can make items in any order and hand them in as soon as you make an item.

[Turlo Lomon]

I wonder how poison will be addressed. We have our old trophy, but it is used to upgrade it to a seal, which is used to make multi-dose poisons.

Will we need to make a new trophy if we want to take the short cut?
Will we loose the seal if we take the short cut?