Bazaar >< is there a way ?

[Deedolith]

Prices of supply in the bazaar are still outrageous, and final products prices are going down every day. Buying your supplies in the bazaar cost more money than reselling your final product.
I know, I could still farm for my own supplies, but that take yada yada yada ect ect ect ... (you all know what I mean).

So, what could be done to get rid of the rip off from the bazaar ? (if that's even doable)

[Scirocco]

Why should anything be done? And who's to say that the price you want to force on people is "better" than the price that results from market forces. High prices usually result from high demand and low supply.

If you don't want to pay the higher prices, then don't. Go farm the item you want yourself. After all, that's what you're paying for...the time it takes you to go obtain the item in question.

[Heartsong_Steelsoul]

... and that's how you change the market price. Either enough people stop buying, so they lower the price to sell it or the prices of the end product go up to pay for the supplies, or no one makes any of it, which would drive the demand on the materials down, and theoretically the demand on the final product up as supplies dwindle, eventually making it profitable again.

[Tenasi]

Someday, folks will realize that time is money. Be it in EQ, or in RL... Sure, a stack of 20 high quality rockhopper hides may *seem* like a raw deal for 1000pp...but in reality, how long would it take YOU to go get them? Why do you WANT them? Because you're going to use them for something or they have some inherent value.

Yeah, you can farm velium in CC on a good day and fill 4-5 packs full of ore. But that takes several hours of boring (to a 60) farming...almost unavoidable competition...and time lost spent getting XP/AAXP/Levels/more lucrative loot. In the end, the buyers determine the price of goods based on how much they are willing to pay. Supply and demand in action every day.

In most cases, I'm just happy to see that things are being SOLD...because that means there's a supply somewhere.

[Centuri]

You could always bypass the bazaar and go to the source...

For example, if you want cobalt cod/Arctic Wyvern hides, head over to CS and /auc WTB.... offer more than the vendors will give and more than likely, they'll be happy to sell to you.

[Valorale]

I find it amusing the original poster can accusing the bazaar sellers of ripping off.

Nothing in the bazaar is ripping off if someone is willing to pay the asking price.

Ripping off is when someone doesnt give the exact change you should receive on a purchase. Ripping off is when 2 people agree to a set price then one party attempts to not honor his/her end. That is ripping off.
2 Parties consenting to an agreed price and exchanging money/goods for money/goods is a business transaction, no matter what price was paid.

Charging a high price for an item is one's inherent right as a salesman. The way the market counters this is by other people underselling, and by buyers from refusing to pay the higher cost.

I suggest my friend you take a course in economics 101, you would find it very enlightening

[Myndar]

It's fine to be lazy or cheap, but if you're lazy and cheap, you're doomed.

It's that simple. Time or money. Just like in the real world.

I'm kind of disturbed that the original poster can't take the time to collect his own supplies, but considers other peoples' time to be essentially valueless.

[Deedolith]

*huck* I'm not accusing anyone, neither flaming.
Honestly, with the bazaar some supplies went x10 the price it was before.
And I find it wrong that the total of supplies bought cost more than the resell of the final product. (unless comming from NPCs, but that's another history).


I'm kind of disturbed that the original poster can't take the time to collect his own supplies :x :evil:
Come farming with me, be disturbed later, thanks.

[Heartsong_Steelsoul]

Please, we're skating close to the line of personal attacks here, people, calm it down a notch.

[Healblade]

So, when the bazaar prices for things like spider silk are too high...

(1) Farm them yourself
(2) Farm them and sell for less; If people cause price wars on the finished products, why can't we do that for the components?

Personally, I feel that Misty Thicket Picnics are not worth more than 5pp. I feel that 5pp is a fair price, and I sell out of them very very very fast... the same can go for any tradeskill ingredients. Even if people buy them from you and then mark up the price, people will see that people are willing to sell at 5pp, and many will wait for you to sell more.

[Valorale]

And I find it wrong that the total of supplies bought cost more than the resell of the final product.

Once again my friend, economics 101. If the finished product sells for less than the material, then one can assume this:

1) The finished product is readily avalible and low in demand
2) The material is in higher demand than the supply allows

Meaning the material has a value other than the potential value of the end product. That value is the chance of the ever lucrative skillup. For people seeking the skillup, the finished product is often nothing more than an annoying byproduct of the effort put forth. For those seeking the end product, a skillup is a welcoming surprise. Bottom line, more people seek the skillup than those who seek the end product thus the higher demand on the products to attempt the skillup

[Cigarskunk]

I know, I could still farm for my own supplies, but that take yada yada yada ect ect ect ... (you all know what I mean).

So, what could be done to get rid of the rip off from the bazaar ? (if that's even doable)

LOL - I'm afraid that you answered your own question there - the only way to trash the farmer's is to hunt the stuff yourself - once they see that they can't sell the stuff then they'll lower thier prices till they do.

Only other way is to go on a crusade against them - go out and farm a few thousand silk swatches and then make sure that you've always got a hundred or so on a mule for whatever price you want to see them for. After a few weeks, this should trash the price on your server and knock it down to whatever you think is a fair price.

Next, farm a few thousand HQ cat pelts and do the same, then do it with otter fur, crystal silk, etc.

[Boledar]

You must dedicate yourself to both prospects at the same time.

Keep a well-funded mule in the bazaar and log on at prime time and you will find competition driving the prices down. Also, you never know when someone is going to seriously undercut the competition, even in small quantities. Savings are savings.

Farm away. There is absolutely no substitute for farming yourself. create new characters just to farm with. I created a druid for two reasons: 1.) to use my hand-me-down WIS items and 2.) to farm ingredients. I have hunted animals and spiders for all 18 levels of his existence to the tune of 276 spider silks and 42 HQ cats pelts; not to mention the other stax and stax of lesser items and foraged goods.

Above all patience is required and dedication. You got two hours? Log on and kill Crag spiders by yourself.

GL

[borblefoot furtoe]

THe problem I see it has nothing to do with What prices people are selling the components and final products but with how the skill up process in the game is handled. The bad thing is the way the game is currently set up The same recipies used by people for skilling up are the same recipies people want to use to make items for a profit. This is where the contention comes in.

As the skill up process requires massive amounts of repetitvely creating the same item over and over again as more people get higher in skill the prices of finished products goes down. While the demand for component parts increases. This is a natural result of the way tradeskills are currently set up. What they need to do is add recipies to the game that are skill up only recipies. There are many ways to implement this but it would most likely require some retuning of the current item trivials, compenent drop rates etc etc.

And I believe I saw a post somewhere on the old board discussing that subject but I could be wrong.

[random user]

The bazaar has increased the price of items, but...

Time IS money for most people. Some people just value it more than others.

For me, when I had to sit around Ekarana or ECommons and auction WTB Spider Silk, I still had to waste *my* time doing nothing of significance.

I'm willing to pay a surcharge so that I can just go up to buy an item, no hassle, no wait.

So for me, I'm willing to pay a little more plat per tradeskill item because in terms of real cost (ie time + plat), I think I'm still even or even coming out ahead.

Of course, I'm probably the type of player who keeps prices fairly high, but *shrug* I value my time highly.

- Xylem, E'ci

[Kaidian Blade]

Supply... Demand... Availability... Desire

THESE are what dictate prices. The comments thus far have been great. What you need to keep in mind is that players determine the market, it doesn't set itself.

Take for example, the whole situation with Iron Oxide (IO). Here's a component needed in many high level Pottery recipies (including the Golden Idol of Tunare used for the Solstice/Nature earring quest) but until recently had a TERRIBLY limited supply in the game. It was (and still is) a 24/7 ground spawn camp in Steamfont and could be looted off very limited mobs in just a couple zones. The demand for it was so high that prices for the stuff shot up to over 2kpp. On most servers it seemed to settle around 1kpp, that is until the last patch. Sony FINALLY got the message and put IO on DOZENS of mobs all across Luclin and supposedly in the Planes as well. So what happens? Now instead of seeing a few Traders with IO's selling at 1kpp each, there are now a bunch of them still trying to sell at that price. No way. IO price has dropped to around 200pp. The demand is just as high as it was before, but now there are more people supplying it because the availability just became greater. Price DROPS.

On the flip-side, look what is happening with Velium Mastadon Furs. Here's an item that was for the most part not worth the time to collect. No one sold them, no one farmed them - hell, no one really wanted them. Then along comes the Illusion: Wood Elf quest helm with the upgrade of Skyshrine. What's one of the components to get it? - Velium Mastadon Fur Cloak. What's it use? - Velium Mastadon Furs. Who wants one? FREAKIN EVERYONE IT SEEMS! hehe So suddenly an item that had absolutly NO value suddenly becomes quite the hot commodity. Prices have quickly jumped up to 2kpp - 3kpp EACH FUR and seem to be on a slow incline as more and more folks want this Illusion item. The furs are only on one mob, in one mean zone and are a rather rare drop. Price ROCKETS.

For components that are plentiful, but have a high demand and are time consuming or mind-numbing to farm, prices tend to be high - for example Arcylia, Velium, Furs, etc. Even some combined items are like this - Swatches, Padding, Essences, etc. One of your few recourses to try to permanently lower these prices is have a constant and plentiful supply of such-and-such an item and price it significantly lower than the competition. Price it low enough to not be bought out, but high enough to force the other Traders on your server to adopt your price or never, EVER sell another one again because your prices can't be beat.

I saw this happen on my server with Demi-Sec Champagne. It was selling consistantly at 500pp each for a loooong time. Then someone probably got pissed off just enough to say "That's just too **** high a price and it's not worth it". He probably went out and worked on his JC and Brewing skill and mass produced Demi-Sec Champagnes. Next you know, they are on sale in the Bazaar for 150pp. HUNDREDS OF THEM - and the supply never ran out. Now I'm sure the guy made plenty of plat, but he also impacted the market so much that every other Trader had to adopt this new price or never push their own Demi-Sec Champagnes. Time passes and the price has settled between 100-150pp now. No one will ever pay 500pp each for one again.

It can be done. It just takes a little determination, motivation and a HUGE inventory to do it.

Now if someone would do this for Blue Diamonds on Sol Ro, I'd be eternally grateful. :D

[xaanru]

What I have found works is, tell every newbie you run accross, about the great secret you have for making plat. even take them to the bazaar to show them how much the stuff is selling for. I do this with spider/spiderling silks, pelts, and padings. I have seen the effect of padding dropping from 40pp each down to an everage of about 29pp. Silks have dropped some too. The best part is, there are typically twice as many people selling them, as there used to be.

The average newbie is desperate for cash to buy some decent gear. I usually try to catch any who are asking for handouts, or seem to be porly equipped, and tell them these "secrets".

You'd be surprised how many don't know. The secret to supply and demand for raw tradeskills materials is, demeand is fairly constant, get supply up, and prices go down. However, you've got to keep doing it, because eventually, these eople move up in levels, and on to more lucrative endeavors.

[Thicket Tundrabog]

Good idea Xaanru :)

Some observations I've made on Bazaar prices and availability on Povar.

Some component prices have dropped dramatically. I now buy blue diamonds opportunistically at 500 pp each. At just about any time you can buy blue diamonds at 800pp or less. Velium prices have dropped dramatically. I buy small velium bricks for 20 pp or less, and small velium pieces at 12 pp or less. I seldom farm velium, because it's easier to buy in the Bazaar. I still go to CC or Velk's and auction in the zone.

Some tailoring components have essentially disappeared from the Bazaar. These include oak bark, morning dew and yew leaves. When they are for sale, they are usually cheap. It seems that fewer people are bothering to sell this stuff in the Bazaar, as opposed to there being a high demand (That's why I like Xaanru's idea.)

Tailored goods have dropped dramatically in price. There are still niche markets, but they are harder to find.

Happy tailoring.

Thicket

[Blat Splat]

Honestly, with the bazaar some supplies went x10 the price it was before.
And I find it wrong that the total of supplies bought cost more than the resell of the final product. (unless comming from NPCs, but that's another history).

You yourself are able to fix this problem. Just go farm the components and sell them for what you believe the price should be. The others will then have to lower their prices to compete with you. OR you will see the work required for farming them and raise your prices to meet theirs. Either way, problem solved.

[Jackmoove]

I remember when Opal encrusted steins came out. Was selling em as fast as I could make for 300pp ea or 500pp for a pair.. It's a shame the way the bazaar has ruined that cash cow. Going rate is now 30pp on em. well.. It's better than nothing.. better than destroying em I suppose.

[Liwsa]

Jack at least they still sell like you said. Most tailors IF they do things for skill-ups only and do not make sellable items only have plenty of things made they can't give away.


Liwsa 201 apprentice tailor
Terris-Thule

[Valorale]

Splat, as Kaidian said you need to have a really BIG inventory to do that. I know on more than one occasion when there was a competitor selling an item that seriously undercut my price, I would go over and clean out his inventory and then resell the item at the price I set. Especially if this is a disposable item such as spider silk, it almost always works.

[Pockets FullOfGold]

Once I Trivial Acrylia Studded, 15 skill ups to go, if I have any Superb's or Acrylia Studs left over I may do a few things with them. I may decide to ruin the Hide market for a while and sell em cheap, I may sell Studs Cheap, I may sell em at the going rate to make a helluva profit over what I already made farming em, I may make Tunics and Cloaks and sell em cheap... since it only takes me 2 PP to make em anyway ;) or I may just give them away to people who need em. Guess it will depend on what kind of mood I'm in at the time hehehe

If I do decide to sell them cheap, maybe it will give others some incentive to lower their prices for you all who would like to see things worth it to make.

Pockets FullOfGold
Level 58 Thief
New OutRiders
The Rathe Server

[Morillion]

Another alternative is to build a supply chain. Since PoP, I will just port to Halas and find a couple of lvl 1-4 barbarians, and ask them to farm for me. Offer what you feel is fair, and let them do the work and gain XP from it. Throw in a buff or little twink for good measure, and ask them to give a tell when they have a stack or two.

Now I spend 5 minutes in Halas instead of 5 hours, and still get a backpack full of spiderling silk. Recruit a few more people who just started, and tell them to tell their friends.


I've also noticed a slight decline in the prices of raw tradeskill items since PoP. I think because it is now much safer and quicker for actual newbies to get to bazaar, they are learning the secret to quick cash and making the trips themselves.

[monocot]

Ultimately, no one is ripping you off in the bazaar unless you allow them to. Last night on Lanys I saw haze panther skins selling for 3000pp in the bazaar, I laughed, and moved on to other supplies. I buy Rockhoppers at 100pp/hide, but not at the 250 some people wish to charge. Do I buy as many Acrylia/Velium/Furs/silk/hides as I could? Certainly not. I buy them when the price is less than the cost of my personal time to collect them. I could very easily get to 250 by throwing all my money at buying overpriced goods, but I would rather skill up a little bit more slowly and invest what I think the skillups are worth.
Monocot

[Kudikai]

I honestly believe the supply/demand is the whole problem. There's no getting rid of the demand for such items, but increasing the supply would fix the situation. Those spiders in EC/WC need to start dropping 6-8 per kill and the spiders in EK should be giving me almost an entire stack per kill.

/goes back to smoking his crack pipe

[Lilosh]

I honestly believe the supply/demand is the whole problem. There's no getting rid of the demand for such items, but increasing the supply would fix the situation. Those spiders in EC/WC need to start dropping 6-8 per kill and the spiders in EK should be giving me almost an entire stack per kill.

/goes back to smoking his crack pipe
6-8 Silk per spider?
20 Silk per spider?

*snicker*

There is such a thing as Too Easy. SoE probably isnt going to up silk drop rates just because people are charging an amount that people will pay.

It all boils down to the fact that farmers/resellers charge what the market will pay.

If you dont like it, dont buy from them. If enough people stop buying from them, prices will lower. It happened on Povar, and I got out of the silk business because of it. Someone farmed HUNDREDS of silk, and priced it at 3-4p each. Which was half the normal price. People who sold silk for a living took a hurting.


When the market wont pay 5-6p per silk, Suppliers will stop charging it.



-Lilosh

[Liwsa]

On Terris-Thule silk prices were 10pp per silk 20-25 per swatch. Prices have now dropped a lot down to 3-5pp per silk 5-10pp per swatch because 1 people quit buying them for those prices and 2 the solstice robe market dried up. Robes are selling for 1200-1500 if you can find anyone making them any more. Other day I was in bazaar over 350 traders Not 1 robe for sale.

Liwsa 203 tailor
Terris-Thule

[Chaid]

The first people to offer highly desired tradeskill items always make the most money.

Like someone mentioned, opal steins were that way. I also remember when acrylia studded cloaks were selling for 5-7k when Luclin first came out. You could count the number of people who could make them reliably on one hand. Now you can find them flooding the bazaar for 900p.

[Morani]

I kinda got tired of reading the same stuff over and over again in yet ANOTHER thread on the same topic so I apologize if I'm just repeating someone here. :?

Something to consider on the prices for supplies: lack of knowledge followed by sheep syndrome. An example from me (I keep a trade mule on Druzzil Ro who pretty much ONLY sells tradeskill supplies.) By pure chance, I found a half stack of flawless hopper hides on a merchant (WHY someone sold them to an NPC I'll never know) and bought them for less than 20 plat each. I then turned around and sold them for 80 plat a piece in the bazaar. At the time, no one had any for me to "price match" so I put a guess up for sale without knowing their value. Minutes latter; the person I sold them to was sell the half stack I had for 200 plat each (Since then I've seen that they go for about 250 each normally). If I had known, I would have made an additional 1200 plat so I lost out on a LOT of profit. Live and learn I suppose. On the other end, I bought a stack of Arctic Wyvern Hides and sold the entire thing in 2 days at 150 each (again; there where none to compare to for sale). I now have 4 stacks of them and can't sell them after 2 months at 80 each. Some of them I paid better than 50 each for because I thought I could get the return. I'm reluctant to lower them any more but I'm tired of them taking up space.

Anyhow; the point I'm making is that some times people set prices that are too high or too low because they don't know any better. I do NOT do tailoring so I have NO idea what is a "fair" price to a tailor on many items. Thus, I have to make a best guess. Frequently, I've noticed other people following my lead once I've guessed and I'm sure I've done the same with someone else's guess. Just because you see a price that you think is WAY to high for an item doesn’t mean the seller is trying to be "unfair" and "rip someone off". Most of us are afraid of loosing large amounts of plat by underselling our stock so we aim high.

I can only speak personally, but I would welcome someone sending me a tell and politely telling me WHY they think my price is too high. If I get someone telling me what the breakdown of the cost for them to MAKE the item is and what that item sells for I have no problem adjusting my price or altering my inventory. I have a strong sense of “fair play” as well as understand the value of “repeat customers”. And as to someone telling me I'm selling to LOW; I can't think of a better way to get put on my list of "preferred customers". These people get sent tells when I have something they are interested in, get a reduced price, and I'm willing to go to THEM most of the time...


As a side note; I frequently see complaints about traders selling things at high prices but so rarely see compliments or thank-you's for consistently selling items at lower than average prices...

[Vile]

I check the prices in Bazaar regularly and fine some of the prices quite insane.

As a tailor ( the same applies for any trades person I think ) prices depend on a number of factors:

1) How hard is the item to get - Well if its a Spider silk its **** easy and the price should reflect that. I have actually seem people selling swatches on Brell for 50pp each - madness. They should be less than 10pp based on the ease you can get them and the fact they are so common.
2) Supply and demand. If they item is in demand then its gonna be worth more - from experience items like Yew leafs are a nightmare to find and they justify a 100pp price tag
3) Resell value - Nobody in thier right mind will pay 300pp for a hide when the end product sells for 50pp....