Greedy, cheatin spell researcher

[Cigarskunk]

OK, with the new spell research option, many an old drop only, sells for 3 million plat if you can find it spells are now researchable.

In typical "we're gonna get our share of the loot from the tradeskillers this time" mentality, folks are selling the seperate parts for these spells in the bazaar for 50-150% of the cost of the dropped version itself.

However, as a level 53 SK, neither of these are my problem yet.

So what's to rant?

Working one of the planes for XP and any loot we could scrounge up, a caster in our group laid claim to the various pages for his spell research claiming the need for them for both practicing his skill and aquiring his spells.

Now, I'm a VERY fare minded person when it comes to stuff like that - NBG is something I'll happily practice since what goes around comes around in my reality and I'd much more prefer to say that I lost a very nice peice of gear because some greedy SOB intended to sell it then because I was getting mine for having been the greedy SOB at some time in the past.

However, this guy was snatching up every single spell research item that was comming our way and there was quite a spread which seemed to my partially trained eye (I've got a 34 chanter who's spell research skill I keep up on) to be for other classes as well.

So I pop into window mode and check out the list during a breather - hmm, it would seem that this person was grabbing quite a few research components that weren't their's - some of which were somwhat valuable too (more than dot fund drops).

So the next time I ended up pulling a non-related one and this person started to demand it, I told the person not to worry because it wasn't specific to thier class (I was even going to be nice and let this person keep all of the WIS caster stuff just incase it was an inocent mistake on thier part) and then proceeded to identify what spell/class it was for.

Now, I've seen what happens in RL when a drunken, redneck uncle dumps a full 5 gallon gas can into a firepit and then tosses in a flaming wad of newspapers in from what he thought was a safe distance - that explosion paled in comparison to how this person blew up at having his private cash cow exposed.

The cliff note version of thier reaction was that I was wrong for having exposed to the party that this person was robbing them by trying to claim research materials which they couldn't use and fully intended to sell in the bazaar for personal, non-NBG profit.

This character didn't even have the descency to just pretend that he was selling them to help pay for his spell research skill - this was pure exploitation of the ignorance of his fellow players for pure profit.

I'm not questioning if I was right or wrong for having called the greedy SOB on it - he had already scored several components which could have helped a guildy or would have paid for my tailoring run for the 5th shawl - him laying claim to them would be like me demanding a warrior only peice of gear if I was the only tank in the group.

Heck, for all I know, this punk might have intended to sell all the components - there's already two gnomes that are never going to get tinker components without question in any PoI group I'm in after I caught them selling the RAW MATERIALS (not finished goods) the same night they pleaded for tinker stuff to "use to skill up on."

It just erks me that so many folks are out there who are willing to take advantage of the fact that they're the only one willing to act like a jerk. :evil:

Edit: Removed profanity. - Cantatus

[Khanjal]

Research components

That's pretty bad for a researcher to do that. I know my skill is around 160 for my enchanter, and I only request what pages I can still skill up on. I'm not very familiar with the LOY ones since I'm on a little vacation, but if I do have successful combines on the pages I've gathered, I usually let guild have them first, and anyone in zone, then if no one wants it goes to a vendor.

[cattywumpus]

NBG is only for guild groups, pick-up groups should always go random. It's the only way to avoid arguments and still be fair.

In guild groups whats good for the guild should come first but since you have no vested interest in the growth and development of some stranger why should you care if he gets anything? I have seen many NBG items up for sale in the Bazaar 5 minutes after the group broke up. Just because they said they NEEDED it doesn't mean they will use it.

Loot should be distributed evenly and fairly and a random system with a 1 item limit (can't random till eveyone has something) is about the fairest I have seen (still has loopholes though).

[Delfontes]

If I am the only wizard in the group, I expect all runes.

No if's and's or butts there, if a rune drops I say "rune please", after the second or third time the ML just comes to me by default when a rune drops and gives it to me.

That being said, I'd never claim another classes research components. Just not my style. I do use them to skill-up on, very slowly . If I make a spell and no one in guild needs, it is ending up on my trader.

I don't see anything wrong with that...

The ones not for his class, I actually don't know much about other classes research, but is it possible he didnt know for sure and just was getting all pages?

If you've seen him selling the research components for profit, ok that does bite.

[Quesci]

This is a huge issue nowadays, especially in pickup groups. the people who don't know what the various drops are for are worried that they will give away a valuable item because they didn't know what it was. tradeskillers often claim the rights to drops because they can use them (especially for skill ups). Most of the big items, like Metallic Liquid, are known but a lot of the rarer things--especially pottery combines, which people tend to ignore--are not.

I was with a pickup group in Nightmare the other day, hunting Hobgoblins and Mephits. The first thing that dropped was a Blue Diamond. I didn't roll on it, saying I didn't really care about gems, I just wanted some tradeskill drops: Nightmare Iron, Hobgoblin Meat, Slarghilug Blood, and Midnight Stones if any dropped. It was a very good night for tradeskill drops and I walked away with about 10 iron, 10 meat, 5 blood, and 3 stones. The rest of the group thought I was crazy because they each got a couple of plat items, maybe 1000pp each and I only got some crappy tradeskill junk. I told them I was very happy and even bought a couple of raw diamonds from them.

Then I made three Iron Amulets, five Hobgoblin Surprises, and nine Planar Blood Brews -- about 17k worth of stuff (granted, I needed some other supplies, notably bubonian blood, but it was a very profitable evening).

I'm not sure how to make this fairer for everyone in a pickup group. On the one hand, most people don't mind when I take Vann toes in BoThunder without counting them as loot. And I would NEVER lie about the use of an item. If a Storm Watcher Stone dropped, most people would ask what it was for and I would say "Pottery, it makes a cold nuke damage focus." And I would have no problem rolling against people for it, as they sell for 7-10k in the bazaar.

Early on in PoValor, when everyone still needed Ethereal Parchments, there was a pretty common rule: Casters rolled on parchments and melee rolled on Metallic Liquid (as people only cared about the rings). People weren't selling the stuff, because everyone needed it.

I wouldn't ever claim that I deserved a drop just because I am a researcher and a tradeskiller. But determining what to roll for is often difficult. Do we roll for every Storm Rider Blood that drops? Simplest is to have one person master loot and then split them up evenly at the end. That is a bit harder to do with a hundred different kinds of research drops.

This guy was wrong, and just plain embarrassed to have been caught. But I'm sure that his actions were fueled by grouping with many people who didn't care one whit about research drops. After a few groups like that, he probably came to expect the loot. He didn't deserve it, and was wrong to get upset.

[Sylphan]

Rolling on everything is just plain fair. Or evenly dividing everything.

The only thing you should give a tradeskiller in the group is the promise that you'll stick around for a few minutes when the group breaks up to sell him what he wants for fair prices, or trade some of his loot for some of yours.

[claver]

Delfontes, you do realize that runes are no longer used just for wizards research right? So saying you would never claim another class research item is ummm well

Expecting every rune that drops nowadays would raise a few eyebrows even if you are a wizard.

http://www.eqtraders.com/secrets/LoYresearch_priest.htm

[Eumerin]

IIRC, all of the runes are used in Wizard research. They can also be used to create Wis-Caster spells. All of the researched Wis-Caster spells use components that are already used for Wizard research, so unless a Wis-Caster specifically can point to certain runes and say, "That one is used for such and such a spell," I think a wizard would have a stronger claim to it.
But it depends on the group loot rules.

[Kytelae]

Friends don't let friends do pick-up groups!

[Zyrtryx Conjureblade]

I would have done the same thing in your situation.

Incidentally, if I'm the only caster in a group and words or pages (don't care about runes) drop, I ask if anyone minds if I keep them. I'm trying to convince my guild to set up sort of an exchange for people who need them for spell research (where they would have to donate a page or words for every one they take), so I shove them in the bank unless I need them for researching my own spells. But I don't know if its going to work or not.

[Maevenniia]

Ok, that person was just plain wrong.

However I object to the term “Greedy Cheating Spell Researcher.”

He was a Greedy Cheating PLAYER.

Probably the nutter who is charging 9000 plat for a Rune of Conglomeration or the other one charging 1200 plat for Rune of Association. /sigh

[Iannyen]

If I am the only wizard in the group, I expect all runes.

Except the ones I can use to skill up my tailoring, right? Not all runes, words, and pages are for spell research anymore.

[Lilosh]

NBG is only for guild groups, pick-up groups should always go random. It's the only way to avoid arguments and still be fair.

A-freaking-men.


Unless you agree on NBG before hand, don't expect people to be kind, considerate, or fair.

In a guid group, NBG is great. If I am not improving my character, I am improving one of my guikdmates, anbd everybody wins.

In a pickup group, I don't know you from anyone, so normally it's greed rolls only.


-Lilosh

[Delfontes]

Yes, I still expect all runes...

Warriors in my groups don't roll on specs, and I don't roll on swords.

Simple eh?

CAWU/CAWS (I am not going to follow the warrior around to see if that meant can and will sell, and he better not follow me around to see if I trade the spell I got from the turn-in for another one I don't have).

[Iannyen]

So even though I can use Runes of Sorcery to make tailoring attempts that trivial at 220ish, I get no chance at them?

Then by that token, I guess since I'm a GM Jewler, I get all gems that drop too, right?

No BD's for you...