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**Glatius2** · 12-31-2002, 01:15 PM

Why would anyone bottom out the market like that, i mean it finally took the Luclin expansion for blacksmiths to get back on the map, pretty soon bracers will sell at 2k breastplates 6k.

You've run across someone who smiths simply because he truly loves to smith. He doesn't really care about the profit margin. As long as he can scrape together the components for his next combine, he's happy.

You can't argue with someone like that simply because they're doing what they enjoy and the impact to you is fairly irrelevant to them. And really, there is no reason why they have to be concerned about the impact to you.

Yeah, I know it bites from your perspective.

**Lilosh** · 12-31-2002, 01:51 PM

Remember folks, he is playing a one player game.

That fact that you are a real person is irrelevant to him.

I would suggest buying him out, and reselling. Or maybe waiting for him to get tired of it.

-Lilosh

**Wyrdlan** · 12-31-2002, 02:04 PM

Lilosh, the game is monopoly, and there is nothing wrong with playing it that way.

The problem with BD armor isn't that people are charging too little for it, it's that compared to other armors they are quite often charging far too much.

Yes, you went through hell. POP armor drops don't care. You don't tradeskill in a vaccuum. Make sure your prices match what else is out there BESIDES other smiths.

**Glatius2** · 12-31-2002, 03:17 PM

The problem with BD armor isn't that people are charging too little for it, it's that compared to other armors they are quite often charging far too much.

Really? What other droppable armor are we talking about? Because as a Warrior I would love to latch onto some of this cheap armor you're talking about, in all honesty. What droppable 50+ AC BPs are we talking about, as an example?

**Kirstin Thornhill** · 12-31-2002, 03:51 PM

You've run across someone who smiths simply because he truly loves to smith. He doesn't really care about the profit margin. As long as he can scrape together the components for his next combine, he's happy.

Or somebody that bought a 250 smith on Ebay...

**Wyrdlan** · 12-31-2002, 04:09 PM

I didn't say it was CHEAP. Just out there.

**Cigarskunk** · 12-31-2002, 05:38 PM

I didn't say it was CHEAP. Just out there.

The problem with BD armor isn't that people are charging too little for it, it's that compared to other armors they are quite often charging far too much.

So what comperable armor can you get for lower prices? If there is other stuff out there which when compared to the BD armor makes the BD armor overpriced, then what is this armor?

I ask in all sencerity as well (not being a smith) because my troll is not a rich troll for his level and is desperate need of inexpensive upgrades.

**kiztent** · 12-31-2002, 06:43 PM

BD cultural is comperable to Kael or Skyshrine quested. I don't know prices offhand, but that's the basis for comparision.

**Shaman Arriana** · 01-01-2003, 06:02 AM

With the huge numbers of relatively-easy-to-obtain armors out there, BD cultural isn't as competitive as it was when it was first introduced.

Plus, the bazaar price on blue diamonds has been slashed to 1/4 (or lower) what it was pre-PoP. You can't expect that to not impact the costs of final pieces.

**Glatius2** · 01-01-2003, 08:04 AM

With the huge numbers of relatively-easy-to-obtain armors out there, BD cultural isn't as competitive as it was when it was first introduced.

Please, elaborate. I'd really like to find these relatively-easy-to-obtain armors that rival BD plate cultural. Chain, yes certainly, but the plate? Unless we're talking Velious quested which has always been available, what other plate armor that rivals BD plate is as easy or easier to obtain than it?

I'm not debating price, I'd really like to find this armor everyone keeps tossing around with out offering specifics.

**Lorddaeth** · 01-01-2003, 11:11 AM

what huge numbers of easy to obtain armor?

1) the BD armor is the best armor to twink with.
2) getting a new BP at these levels is not easy. it would take alot of farming in HoT to get a SS BP, much less the levels and gear to get up there.

**Cigarskunk** · 01-01-2003, 03:12 PM

With the huge numbers of relatively-easy-to-obtain armors out there, BD cultural isn't as competitive as it was when it was first introduced.

Darn it! That's the second time someone has made this claim - where the @#$% was I when they anounced all of these "relatively-easy-to-obtain armors" - I need some good plate gear and I need it now.

Please don't tell me that your defination of "relatively-easy-to-obtain armors" is from the perspective of a 60+ character in an uber guild - I'm only 46 going on 47.

Plus, the bazaar price on blue diamonds has been slashed to 1/4 (or lower) what it was pre-PoP. You can't expect that to not impact the costs of final pieces.

Smiths aren't charging for the fact that BDs are or were 2k each, smiths are charging for the fact that getting to the point that one can make this stuff was hard and now is impossible - most of them are the only game in town for this stuff.

**Shaman Arriana** · 01-01-2003, 04:32 PM

PoP added various "legendary" armors, some of the pieces aren't as good, but it is an option, and you aren't restricted by deity and to finding a specific race smith to make them.

MQs for skyshrine/kael/thurgadin armors have gotten more common and less expensive.

I was a 209 smithing when the trivial nerf hit. I'm 250 now. There are only 2 barbarian smiths above 240 on my server, and the other one is inactive. The next highes tbarbarian smith (to my knowledge) is around 195 skill.

So basically, I'm *IT*. I tried selling pieces at prices comparable to what was listed in the first post of the thread, but 3 weeks went by and nobody bought ANYTHING. So, I decided to accept a smaller profit margin, and I cut my prices down to about 1/4. I actually sell things now. I don't make as much money (and with a bad streak at the forge, I'll even lose money), but I do get customers.

Prices going down on things is just a natural function of any economy. When VCR's came out, they were $1500+ each, now you can head down to the local electronics shop and get one for $60 or so. It mostly sounds to me like someone is crying over his lost monopoly, now that he's being out-competed by someone else. Either make your prices competitive with the new market, or withdraw from the market. I highly doubt you are going to convince someone else to raise their prices if they feel they are making good money doing what they are doing. Adapt or die, it's the same in everquest as it is in the real world.

**Xlaxx Darkforge** · 01-01-2003, 11:03 PM

You've run across someone who smiths simply because he truly loves to smith. He doesn't really care about the profit margin.

This answer about sums it up in a nutshell it seems. Now I don't know about the rest of you, but I smithed to 250 with visions of being able to buy gear that would otherwise be near unobtainable. I smith for the fun and profit. I wouldn't have been able to afford my chain horse, wand of the war wizard, zheart, etc you get the idea. I never asked for a handout, I decided I would earn it on my own. So I did, and if that makes me a greedy money grubbing SOB, then so be it..

The problem with BD armor isn't that people are charging too little for it, it's that compared to other armors they are quite often charging far too much.

I must say that this remark should be thought through a bit more. When referring to "charging", one needs to look at his or her server economy. Prices vary from server to server on most items, many things come into play: How many smiths are there? How many are GM smiths? How many sell the same racial items? So what a Dark Prince Bracer sells on Stormhammer may not be the same on Karana. Also, please list what comparable easy to get armor is out there.

With the huge numbers of relatively-easy-to-obtain armors out there, BD cultural isn't as competitive as it was when it was first introduced.

Plus, the bazaar price on blue diamonds has been slashed to 1/4 (or lower) what it was pre-PoP. You can't expect that to not impact the costs of final pieces.

Please enlighten me on these easy to obtain 50+ac gear that isn't level restricted to 51+, BD is 46 and you don't need to be flagged to get it =)

Now when I first came to Stormhammer in June 2002, BD's were priced at 900pp each, then pop came and boom they shot to 1500pp each average. Now they are down to a staggering 600pp each. When you say that 600pp difference should inpact a 35k selling breastplate.......see where I am going? I don't care if BD's cost 1pp each, I wouldn't drop prices by thousands, once they make skilling to 250 so anyone could do it in a day or two and cost near nothing to do so, then maybe yes.

1) the BD armor is the best armor to twink with.
2) getting a new BP at these levels is not easy. it would take alot of farming in HoT to get a SS BP, much less the levels and gear to get up there.

Thank You

Ok sorry for the long post..

My main issue was this:

Everyone was happy with my prices, or at least they didn't complain and trust me they would if I was charging too much. Once the United Way aka lvl 65 GM ^#%$ de smith popped in and started auctioning at half what i was, even people were saying in auction that "Wow your only charging that much?? Why? its good gear, why give it away???" The point being people were satisfied, I have outfitted many people and they have all paid gladly. I just wish people would understand that this is economy and making rash decisions like deciding you will drop the smithing econ by a HUGE margin affects other smiths, not just me. I know serveral hopeful smiths that are toiling day in and day out to finally reach that grand 250 number and start a new business and hopefully become successful. Their investment is in the thousands and time in the hundreds of hours. I ask other smiths out there to at least think about what they are doing before they decide to just make their own prices and at least see what the market will bear and consider the fact that they aren't the only smith out there, and that some actually smith to make some money.

Go ahead and bash away :?

Xlaxx Darkforge
61 Necro GM Smith

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