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  • Alchemy - Forgotten and Abandoned

    It has now been one month since PoP was released, and we still have NO new potions.

    Now, rumors on the Crucible point to a hard coded 200 skill cap for Alchemy, even if you are level 65 and are actively skilling up in it.

    BOOOOOOO VERANT.

    Give us alchemists some lovin', or we'll... we'll.... we'll..... stop slowing mobs for the rangers! That's it! Unless you give us the goods, we'll see a mass wave of ranger deaths all over Norrath, and Luclin as well!

    Remember, Every Time You Don't Slow, God Kills a Ranger. Please, Think Of The Rangers!


    My magelo profile

  • #2
    Actually, the word from the Fan Faire was that there was not a hard cap on it anymore, BUT it's hard to tell from our end.

    There's a thread about the Fan Faire over on the old boards that shows that while they've not forgotten alchemy, they've had issues with getting any new potions approved by the powers that be. (i.e., too strong, steps on some other class's toes by doing something they do, only better, cheaper, etc.) They're still knocking around ideas, at last check, so it'd be good if we can come up with some *reasonable* suggestions to revamp alchemy for them to knock around.

    (Hmmm, like upgrades to the shielding buff line, stat enhancers without the negative stats, maybe an acumen buff to continue the vision line of spells, a closer look at herb prices, etc.)

    If we can come up with some useful ideas, we're far more likely to see some changes to the skill than if we all sit here and write it off as a dead skill, methinks.

    Comment


    • #3
      I agree that putting ideas out there are a good idea, but I have issue with the better faster stronger thinking.

      one of the best parts of tradeskill s is getting the new stuff with patches. We've sat dormant for a while now and it seems to me that we are being overlooked.

      As for suggestions, I've heard it mentioned a few times and think it's an awesome idea. Illusion potions that work as a faction modifier. This is not something that only one class gets. Most classes have the ability to turn into something other than thier natural form (sorry Warriors, Pallies and Monks :? )

      This would give us a cool new potion. It wouldn't have to be cheap or "easy" to make, but it would give us a really cool goal to reach for.

      Thoughts on this?

      Ubercyrus Forbeis
      Shaman of Clan X
      "Grace me Guide!" - Clan Forbeis Motto

      Comment


      • #4
        I would like to see them revamp the herbs and the prices on them.. There are potions that cost over 200 pp per attempt that are all but impossible to sell, if you manage to succeed. I spent 900 pp in one day attempting a mana regeneration potion, I only had one success. It seems unfair to me that our only "class specific" skill is so expensive to practice.

        Anyway thats my 2 coppers on the subject
        Belith Wolfmoon
        Shammy of 49 Seasons
        Devoted Wife to Ozzmoziz
        Officer of Road of Kings on Xev
        Captain of RoK Drunk and Disorderly Committee

        Comment


        • #5
          Still no new found...

          Combining all alchemy looking stuff as soon as i get my hands on them...
          Elder Thorgulla Dorfbashah
          Prophet of Arch of Chaos, Terris Thule
          Happily wed to Gumkak Dorfbashah
          Alchemy 200, Pottery 237, Brewing 198
          Imbue> Justice, Disease and War

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          • #6
            Would love some new potions but I think I would take a higher sell back over something harder to make that doesnt sell

            Just this Trolls 2 cents
            Ghratch Gearheart
            58th Troll Shaman of Unconquered
            Drinal Server

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            • #7
              As far as stepping on other tradeskills' toes... Verant sure doesn't seem to have a problem doing in reverse. Stats on baking items (man, that was a slap straight at alchemy), the Velious gate potion, grow/shrink items for tinkering, etc. Makes me /slap my forehead and say "WHAT are they thinking?" If they have no problem giving away alchemy abilities like that, they shouldn't have a problem with doing the reverse.

              They really need to sit down and revamp. Not do what they've done in the past, which is take things out, add new things, put all the old things they had in the first place back again.

              As for ideas (these are rehashed from many other folks, but bear repeating):

              Take the negative stat effects out.
              Make buy backs more reasonable.
              Potions that don't require an extra reagent (enduring breath and scales; lev and bat wings).

              I'd much rather see brand new stuff tho:

              Illusion potions. No stat mods on low level potions, stat mods based on the Illusion type for higher level ones. Skels, dogs, bears, other races, etc.

              Forage capabilities for shaman (And, no, I don't care that it would be a big re-write....if people are writing things like /gems and mp3 players for the game, they should have time to add that). It would make things tough for people looking to forage items they need, but it would make alchemy a LOT more interesting. Buying herbs from vendors? A primitive shaman type? Come on folks....

              See invisible

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Murjden
                Forage capabilities for shaman (And, no, I don't care that it would be a big re-write....if people are writing things like /gems and mp3 players for the game, they should have time to add that). It would make things tough for people looking to forage items they need, but it would make alchemy a LOT more interesting. Buying herbs from vendors? A primitive shaman type? Come on folks....
                I agree, these are herbs that are found growing places.... shouldn't we be able to forage these things oursleves? I mean after working with them to the point you're a master alchemist, I think you'd have an eye to spot them on the ground! If only in specific zones, I'd love to see this. It won't happen, but it'd be cool.

                As far as sell back and all that goes, I really don't think we'll ever see a sell-back we'll be happy with, just ain't gonna happen.

                I say rather than a revamp... let's go for new things.

                Originally posted by Murjden
                Verant sure doesn't seem to have a problem doing in reverse. Stats on baking items (man, that was a slap straight at alchemy), the Velious gate potion, grow/shrink items for tinkering, etc.
                I agree! We should have the ability to make things others can. Just in another form.

                Ubercyrus Forbeis
                Shaman of Clan X
                "Grace me Guide!" - Clan Forbeis Motto

                Comment


                • #9
                  at the crucible we've been toying with some new ideas that would make alchemy better. Not the old 'gate' 'invis' 'bind' etc ideas, but new ones.

                  One of them was a Focus Effect potion. like the new spell haste cleric buffs.

                  An interesting idea I thought was of offensive potions, not defensive. Using the throwing skill to throw potions at an enemy that have some detrimental effect on the mob, like a stun, or maybe a disease.

                  Other current potions are nice, but mark my words. In no way is alchemy dead.
                  -Signed, 'F'

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Dear god, WHY do you people want a stupid skill to forage herbs? Do you run around with 4 empty backpacks or something? I am strapped for space as is.

                    In theory, you want to forage to reduce the cost of alchemy. This will achieve it, but only to a small degree. Imagine you want to make a 10 shot clarity potion. How many herbs are there? Lets say you have a 80% success rate. So you need 12 of each herb that goes in the potion. But if the herbs are random, you will need to forage roughly 12 of each other type of herb in that forage range. Its just an unneccesary PITA when they could just as easily drop the herb prices by about 70%. This would give the same results, be easier on them, and most importantly easier on us.

                    Honestly, when chanters are on 24/7 selling extended kei for 50pp, having a cruddy clarity potion for 4 a tick that doesnt cost 80pp per attempt wont kill the game.

                    What I want

                    Reduced herb prices. Keep buyback low on many potions, to prevent people from selling 10 shots with 1 charge left to a vendor to rebuy in a recharged state.

                    10 shot invis, 10 shot gate potions. If vendors sell them, they cant be that unbalancing right?

                    Remove the negative stats from potions. I know they dont matter, the devs know stats dont matter, but the rest of EQ is pretty **** ignorant. I swear, people would balk at an instant ding potion that had an AGI penalty on it...

                    Remove reagent requirement for drinking a potion. Keep it in the combine if neccesary. Its aggravating. Alchemy is supposed to reduce annoyance, not compound it.

                    Increase duration on haste and regen potions to be in line with the spells they emulate

                    Add in a few new potions.

                    I like the illusion idea, a LOT. Perhaps requireng a piece of meat from the creature being copied?

                    A way to enchant ores. I hate shackeling an enchanter to a forge, enchanters hate being. The bricks dont stack and its just a pain. This way, the shaman races without enchanters but with cultural armor dont have to leave their culture to produce an effect. Make it cost about 30-40pp per cast, thats about what I pay an enchanter anyways. Something an alchemist can sell to a smith to enchant at their leisure.

                    Focus effects would be nice. Mages can summon these for free, why not stick em in a can for a modest fee? Likely a dropped/expensive component would be in order.

                    This brings me to my final thoughs on alchemy. Its store bought. All of it. Moreover, its customers constantly use up the product, unlike, say jewelcraft, so an alchemist rarely has to compete with a secondary market. So any extraordinarily good product should require a dropped/ground spawn/whatever component (similar to brewing or baking). Alchemy has potential, but its been neglected.
                    55th level ogre shaman of the Drinal server, proud member of Soulbonded, high master smith (229), and originator of the 60th level necro solution to tailoring.

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                    • #11
                      I think the dilemma Sony faces with new potions is to make them good enough to be worth making/buying/using, while not so powerful that they become mandatory. Say they made a new agro increasing potions. Then a MT could be more sure of keeping agro, which in turn allows everyone else, melee and caster alike, to attack all that much harder. This could trivialize some encounters (don't you just hate that phrase?). Given their track record, they may also be concerned about unforeseen tactics (i.e., exploits).

                      Given the test done long ago on STR spell as a buff on damage output, I can't see how a STR potion without the negative stats could be that unbalancing. I can already self buff my STR buy about 180 points (HoS, Strength, plus Rage). I know lots of tanks that would love a decent STA buff potion.

                      Arghargh Grumble, Darkblood
                      57 Ogre Shaman of Rallos Zek
                      Alchemy – 160
                      Baking – 200
                      Brewing - 200
                      Fishing - 200
                      Fletching – 200
                      Jewelcraft –200
                      Potting - 200
                      Grandmaster Smith - 250
                      Tailoring – 159

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I don't want to forage to reduce costs. There's no way that's effective.

                        I want to have forage because 1) it makes sense for a shaman to be capable of this and 2) if they make components we can't buy, but need to forage, they're more rare and (hopefully) more interesting than what we have now.

                        Knowing Verant, they'll add foraged components, but then screw Barbs since they can't do it. :?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Ok, Flabbo...

                          First off, who said anything about foraging being easy? Ever played a druid or ranger? Part of the reason the potc quest {bites} is the stuff you have to forage.

                          Cheaper.. I doubt it. Seriously, foraging things is not an alternative to buying them 9 times out of 10.

                          Secondly, you really think they're gonna lower the price on mana regen herbs and the like, or make it easier to make? Dream on {text removed}.

                          I'd hav to say the closest tradeskill to Alchemy is Smithing. It's a long hard expensive process. People had issues with it at one time, did they lower the prices on smithing items? Nope. They did however, make some of the things available via other means. Foraging has been brought up as an alternative to buying items. I agree with Murj though. If foraged compnents do work thier way into the game, they need to make sure all shaman can forage or just forget about it.

                          I would't mind seeing an invis and gate potion. (gate to bind)

                          I think the idea of parts being used to make llusion potions is great. But creating maybe a higher yield per part, better than a 1:1 ratio. We see that in other tradeskills. Or perhaps use a filleting knife to create chunks out of the parts, so one chunk is a 1:1 ratio, but 1 part makes 5 chunks.

                          I would't mind seeing some special kind of enchant potions. Would be a nice alternative to enchanters.

                          Focus effects would be very nice. Stuff along the lines of the Mage items, or maybe even cover some of the gaps the mage items leave... I dunno.

                          Edited by Verdandi. Please refrain from insulting other posters. I realize that given his name the term you used may have seemed appropriate but in the context of the rest of your post it was an insult. We're all friends here, so conversation needs to stay friendly in order to be welcome on these boards.

                          Ubercyrus Forbeis
                          Shaman of Clan X
                          "Grace me Guide!" - Clan Forbeis Motto

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I'd love to at least gain somethign "fun" out of alchemy if they wont give us anything usefull. Illusion potions, even if you need to farm body parts (ala crown of diceit quest) would be great.


                            Would also kill for a potion that did Illusion: Gender. spell been in the game FOREVER, lets get some use out of it =P Shock value would be the best. Specially if they made it stack with other illusions, so you could have chanter project and then drink potion and be incognito.


                            Hey i like having fun!
                            Prophet Tharkis the Paragon

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Still may be hope..

                              I just heard that they removed all the negative effects on the Potions on Test and added these 2 potions (Dunno, might have added more) :

                              Null Aura Detail | History | Stacking | Raw Data


                              Slot Description
                              3: Increase Magic Resist by 3 (L1) to 25 (L12)
                              4: Increase DEX by 3 (L1) to 25 (L12)

                              Aura of Eternity Detail | History | Stacking | Raw Data


                              Slot Description
                              8: Increase Mana by 5 per tick
                              10: Increase Hitpoints by 5 per tick

                              Duration 27 mins

                              It looks like they may actually be trying to fix Alchemy now. Would be nice to here what the cost per attempt on these potions are though. Either way, I'm just glad they're finally doing something with Alchemy.
                              Shakoboy, Level 61 Luminary of The Nameless server

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